Re: Re: Holden St, my correction now
  Mal Rowe

> Roderick B Smith rodsmith@...> wrote:

Hi Rod,

A few comments below ...

> Mal's map was wonderful, but predated the electric line to the north.

> It also fails to show a crossover for the cable tram (or two

> crossovers?), the the accuracy is a worry.

It's not a track map, rather a drain map. We can be pretty sure that it shows the actual location of the tramway (and especially the wheel pit) as that was of major importance for drainage.

> The Argus photo does show the electric tram on narrower centres, and a

> tram terminating there because the new line had yet to be commissioned

> (why a 2 year delay? Kosky wasn't PTM then).

The tram in the pic is a cable tram, not electric. On careful reading of the text below the pic, what is being reported is a new connection to the Holden St workshops (i.e. the cable tram carbarn being used as workshops) and the line "to West Brunswick" is to come later. That's the Holden St line.

> Assuming that weight and curvature are no problem, a

> tram delivery could be hauled by horses or a solid-tyred truck if

> slipping the cable was a big issue.

Agreed, but I have no advice from anyone about whether this actually happened.

> I don't have a copy of Cranston, so I am not sure which curves existed

> to link lines.

> I could believe in the pivoting of four wheel trams (which others hint

> must have happened), but not in the pivoting of Ws.

I'm just reporting what I've been told ... wasn't old enough to be there.

> Mal hints that the

> Holden St link was available possibly from the time the first Ws were

> outshopped: even if not commissioned, or electrified.

I didn't mean to - all that the article reports is a connection between the "Holden St shops" and the Preston electric line.

> Do the M&MBW maps come in different eras?

Yes, but usually not for one location. The map you see on the (truly awful!) web interface is just a key and it links to hundreds of individual maps. Each area is covered by (usually) one map but maps for adjacent areas are of different dates. For example, the map of Moonee Ponds Junction shows the triangular track connection to Puckle St, but the next map west shows Puckle St with no hint of a tramway.

I'm taking the opportunity to attach the "1923 General Scheme" map from the 1923 Annual report of the M&MTB. It is not in the TDU archives, but will be now at:

It's a useful reference, especially for anyone trying to follow the discussion on this topic.

Mal Rowe in AU

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