Melbourne, Christchurch
David Young
Sunday, August 26, 2001 6:54 PM
Thanks for the replies to my questions, guys.
To Greg King, who commented that 21-E replica trucks are still made today by
Hong Kong, I would say yes, but...
In my opinion, these trucks are not 21-Es, or even direct derivations,
except by a long and circuitous line of descent via U.K.-built Maley and
Taunton designs. I am talking specifically of the Maley & Taunton
single-truck swing-link type (a few of which are still in Lisbon
service)which shows its Brill 21-E origins fairly clearly, and the follow-up
Maley & Taunton Type 588 single truck, which was first seen on two new
Glasgow single-truck cars of 1939/40. This latter looks nothing like a 21-E
and did its job quite differently.
This truck was produced 1946-1952 for a batch of 36 Sheffield cars plus a
few samples used under other vehicles, including a Leeds car and (and this
is where the story really starts) I am 99% certain one or more Hong Kong
cars. These possibly were the pre-war type, but more likely they were the
post-war type, first put into service in 1949 and last operated in the late
1980s, being replaced by the current car.
Either way, that's not strictly important for this story, since up till
then, the Hong Kong system had used an interesting selection of current U.K.
single-truck types as well as Brill 21-Es and clearly was sampling the
immediate post-war market to see what else might be interest for a modern
car.
Externally, the Maley & Taunton 588 was a hornless (hornwayless) truck,
which dispensed with coil springs around the axlebox, substituting instead
roller bearings and an extended spring base ending in rubber spring sandwich
blocks separating the top and bottom metal parts. This gave it a limited
amount of radial movement around curves without the complexities of previous
spring/roller pad/pivotal/ pendulum/swing link/non-parallel axle etc
equipment, which never worked reliably for long.
To put it simply and crudely,on the M&T 588 the twisting motion around
curves was taken up, cushioned and absorbed by the rubber pads. There were
other relatively sophisticated features of the truck, which are not of
relevance to this conversational thread and a double-truck inside-frame
version made--over 100 for Glasgow, 39 for Blackpool and one (somewhat
modified) for Leeds--this type being the closest the U.K. got to its own PCC
truck without infringing TRC patents (although M&T did in fact get a TRC
license in 1944)
Cars fitted with M&T 588 single trucks were nice riding things--I rode
Sheffield 510 at Crich (UK tramway museum) a few weeks ago and while not
quite as smooth as I remember it in 1959/60 when still in service, it was
still light-years ahead of the roller-bearing long-wheelbase 21-E, which
were the best of that breed and still to be experienced on Crich's Glasgow
Standard car 812.
Some sample 588 trucks were sent out to Hong Kong circa 1948 and were fitted
to the new car bodies then going into service. I don't know how long they
lasted. At this time, the Taikoo Dockyard Co. was also interested in getting
business and developed its own single truck, an economy version of the M&T
588 in some respects, which had the Maley & Taunton rubber pads rather than
coil springs but which otherwise reverted to a hornway type truck similar to
the 21-E and which did its job in roughly similar fashion.
This truck was made from then until at least 1992, becoming Hong Kong's
standard. Examples are under the two cars Greg mentioned, which are
Birkenhead 69 and 70 of the Wirral Heritage Tramway. You can find and ride
that system on weekends by taking a ferry 'cross the Mersey from Liverpool's
Pier Head--the trams start at the ferry building, just as they did until
1937 and the replacement buses continue to do to this day. Alternatively, of
course, you can ride the electric Merseyrail trains under the Mersey to
Birkenhead Central.
It is a great little standard-gauge heritage tramway, operated under license
by Blackpool Transport services (the 2 Hong Kong cars ran in Blackpool for a
couple of seasons before the line opened in 1991) and whose fleet has been
massively supplemented by the unbelievably active local enthusiasts group,
who have resucitated more chicken coops in less time than almost anyone I
know of, all of which are local Merseyside cars not duplicated anywhere
else. (Not to mention the wonderful historic collection of local buses).
The Hong Kong cars ride fairly well, but not as well as Maley & Taunton
588-equipped cars. One of the Hong Kong cars is now either on its way to, or
maybe already is, in Blackpool, surplus to requirements at Birkenhead now
that Liverpool 762 has come into service. One should note that these are the
only Hong Kong trams ever built to standard gauge, the rest are of 3' 6"
gauge.
To Bill Bolton I would say thanks for the info on resilient wheels and his
comments on the claim that Christchuch is the first Australasian system to
go in for nearly 90 years. I wonder about claiming Glenelg as a new tramway
system in 1912 since there already was an Adelaide tram system then (horse
from 1878, electric from November 1908-1st test car)and Glenelg wasn't
electrified as part of the system until 1929. Unless one regards it as a
separate steam tramway, but in that case there's still a problem since that
service began in 1873. What do other Adelaide historians think?
On the other hand, there weren't any electric trams in Leonora, in Western
Australia, until 1908-and that 2 1/2 mile-long line with its one car lasted
only to July 16, 1916 as an electric operation, ceasing electric operation
after a power-house fire. Leonora might then justify Christchurch's claim of
being the first new Australiasian tramway in nearly 90 years. Maybe.
The Leonora line went on until July 1921 using a flanged-wheel petrol lorry
of some kind. Is it true this municipal line used double-wire, like a
trolleybus? Why? The car (a single-truck "California" type of Brill design
but built locally by the Westralia Ironworks) survived complete until 1958,
when the truck (motors and equipment also?) was scrapped. The body still
survives and was acquired for preservation by a local historical society in
1997--can anyone tell me the name and address of this group, and how are
they faring today?
Mr. Bolton is right about Dallas. The McKinney Avenue's Dallas Birney Safety
car 636, a type familiar to most Americans and Australians, runs on a single
truck fabricated from W2 truck bits but with very little in its external
appearance to suggest Melbourne origins. It is without doubt the
best-ridiing Birney I've ever ridden.
The Gomaco single-truck sample car, which is now in Memphis, uses something
far more recognisable as a W2 (Melbourne No. 1) truck, because that's what
it is, one unit of a double-truck set converted to single-truck
non-swivelling configuration. But, as Dr. Johnson famously remarked about
the dog that insisted on walking upright on its two hind legs, the important
thing is not that it's being done badly but rather that it can be done at
all.
In other words, this hybrid design works, up to a point, but isn't the
best-riding thing in the world. Nor does it track as well as one might want,
unless of course it has been modified since I last experienced it a few
years ago. On the other hand, the Memphis W2 cars (some ex-New Orleans) that
Gomaco have rebuilt and overhauled, have a ride quality that ought to make
present-day light rail manufacturers hang their head in shame...
Andrew D. Young
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To Greg King, who commented that 21-E replica trucks are still made today by
Hong Kong, I would say yes, but...
In my opinion, these trucks are not 21-Es, or even direct derivations,
except by a long and circuitous line of descent via U.K.-built Maley and
Taunton designs. I am talking specifically of the Maley & Taunton
single-truck swing-link type (a few of which are still in Lisbon
service)which shows its Brill 21-E origins fairly clearly, and the follow-up
Maley & Taunton Type 588 single truck, which was first seen on two new
Glasgow single-truck cars of 1939/40. This latter looks nothing like a 21-E
and did its job quite differently.
This truck was produced 1946-1952 for a batch of 36 Sheffield cars plus a
few samples used under other vehicles, including a Leeds car and (and this
is where the story really starts) I am 99% certain one or more Hong Kong
cars. These possibly were the pre-war type, but more likely they were the
post-war type, first put into service in 1949 and last operated in the late
1980s, being replaced by the current car.
Either way, that's not strictly important for this story, since up till
then, the Hong Kong system had used an interesting selection of current U.K.
single-truck types as well as Brill 21-Es and clearly was sampling the
immediate post-war market to see what else might be interest for a modern
car.
Externally, the Maley & Taunton 588 was a hornless (hornwayless) truck,
which dispensed with coil springs around the axlebox, substituting instead
roller bearings and an extended spring base ending in rubber spring sandwich
blocks separating the top and bottom metal parts. This gave it a limited
amount of radial movement around curves without the complexities of previous
spring/roller pad/pivotal/ pendulum/swing link/non-parallel axle etc
equipment, which never worked reliably for long.
To put it simply and crudely,on the M&T 588 the twisting motion around
curves was taken up, cushioned and absorbed by the rubber pads. There were
other relatively sophisticated features of the truck, which are not of
relevance to this conversational thread and a double-truck inside-frame
version made--over 100 for Glasgow, 39 for Blackpool and one (somewhat
modified) for Leeds--this type being the closest the U.K. got to its own PCC
truck without infringing TRC patents (although M&T did in fact get a TRC
license in 1944)
Cars fitted with M&T 588 single trucks were nice riding things--I rode
Sheffield 510 at Crich (UK tramway museum) a few weeks ago and while not
quite as smooth as I remember it in 1959/60 when still in service, it was
still light-years ahead of the roller-bearing long-wheelbase 21-E, which
were the best of that breed and still to be experienced on Crich's Glasgow
Standard car 812.
Some sample 588 trucks were sent out to Hong Kong circa 1948 and were fitted
to the new car bodies then going into service. I don't know how long they
lasted. At this time, the Taikoo Dockyard Co. was also interested in getting
business and developed its own single truck, an economy version of the M&T
588 in some respects, which had the Maley & Taunton rubber pads rather than
coil springs but which otherwise reverted to a hornway type truck similar to
the 21-E and which did its job in roughly similar fashion.
This truck was made from then until at least 1992, becoming Hong Kong's
standard. Examples are under the two cars Greg mentioned, which are
Birkenhead 69 and 70 of the Wirral Heritage Tramway. You can find and ride
that system on weekends by taking a ferry 'cross the Mersey from Liverpool's
Pier Head--the trams start at the ferry building, just as they did until
1937 and the replacement buses continue to do to this day. Alternatively, of
course, you can ride the electric Merseyrail trains under the Mersey to
Birkenhead Central.
It is a great little standard-gauge heritage tramway, operated under license
by Blackpool Transport services (the 2 Hong Kong cars ran in Blackpool for a
couple of seasons before the line opened in 1991) and whose fleet has been
massively supplemented by the unbelievably active local enthusiasts group,
who have resucitated more chicken coops in less time than almost anyone I
know of, all of which are local Merseyside cars not duplicated anywhere
else. (Not to mention the wonderful historic collection of local buses).
The Hong Kong cars ride fairly well, but not as well as Maley & Taunton
588-equipped cars. One of the Hong Kong cars is now either on its way to, or
maybe already is, in Blackpool, surplus to requirements at Birkenhead now
that Liverpool 762 has come into service. One should note that these are the
only Hong Kong trams ever built to standard gauge, the rest are of 3' 6"
gauge.
To Bill Bolton I would say thanks for the info on resilient wheels and his
comments on the claim that Christchuch is the first Australasian system to
go in for nearly 90 years. I wonder about claiming Glenelg as a new tramway
system in 1912 since there already was an Adelaide tram system then (horse
from 1878, electric from November 1908-1st test car)and Glenelg wasn't
electrified as part of the system until 1929. Unless one regards it as a
separate steam tramway, but in that case there's still a problem since that
service began in 1873. What do other Adelaide historians think?
On the other hand, there weren't any electric trams in Leonora, in Western
Australia, until 1908-and that 2 1/2 mile-long line with its one car lasted
only to July 16, 1916 as an electric operation, ceasing electric operation
after a power-house fire. Leonora might then justify Christchurch's claim of
being the first new Australiasian tramway in nearly 90 years. Maybe.
The Leonora line went on until July 1921 using a flanged-wheel petrol lorry
of some kind. Is it true this municipal line used double-wire, like a
trolleybus? Why? The car (a single-truck "California" type of Brill design
but built locally by the Westralia Ironworks) survived complete until 1958,
when the truck (motors and equipment also?) was scrapped. The body still
survives and was acquired for preservation by a local historical society in
1997--can anyone tell me the name and address of this group, and how are
they faring today?
Mr. Bolton is right about Dallas. The McKinney Avenue's Dallas Birney Safety
car 636, a type familiar to most Americans and Australians, runs on a single
truck fabricated from W2 truck bits but with very little in its external
appearance to suggest Melbourne origins. It is without doubt the
best-ridiing Birney I've ever ridden.
The Gomaco single-truck sample car, which is now in Memphis, uses something
far more recognisable as a W2 (Melbourne No. 1) truck, because that's what
it is, one unit of a double-truck set converted to single-truck
non-swivelling configuration. But, as Dr. Johnson famously remarked about
the dog that insisted on walking upright on its two hind legs, the important
thing is not that it's being done badly but rather that it can be done at
all.
In other words, this hybrid design works, up to a point, but isn't the
best-riding thing in the world. Nor does it track as well as one might want,
unless of course it has been modified since I last experienced it a few
years ago. On the other hand, the Memphis W2 cars (some ex-New Orleans) that
Gomaco have rebuilt and overhauled, have a ride quality that ought to make
present-day light rail manufacturers hang their head in shame...
Andrew D. Young
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/zoU8wD/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/DiTxlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/