RE: RE: RE: RE: A Grand Union Junction for Sydney.
prescottt
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:02 PM
Well that seems to contradict this Brian!
http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/b2b/projects/IWLRE%20Light%20rail%20stabling%20within%20the%20former%20Rozelle%20Goods%20Yard.pdf
cheers
Tony P
--- In [email protected], <[email protected]> wrote:
Tony, from Page 10 of Document 2 on the TfNSW website previously quoted:
Shared light rail maintenance and
stabling facility at Rozelle
Transport for NSW is planning for a light rail maintenance and stabling depot in
Rozelle. The facility will be contained within a cutting and largely hidden from
view. The depot will provide maintenance facilities for the entire CSELR and IWLR
extension fleet and stable up to four IWLR vehicles. Maintenance activities include
cleaning, component repair and underframe inspections of the light rail vehicles.
The maintenance and stabling depot is proposed to be a 24 hour facility with an
estimated four light rail vehicle movements per day into and out of the depot.
The maintenance for the existing Pyrmont and Inner West Light Rail fleet
would continue to occur at the existing Pyrmont depot located near the Sydney
Convention Centre.
Although described as "Rozelle", the facility will be just west of the current Lilyfield terminus.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of prescottt@...
Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013 9:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: RE: [TramsDownUnder] RE: A Grand Union Junction for Sydney.
Brian, the Lilyfield facility is also just "stabling", no heavy maintenance. I can't believe all heavy maintenance for trams on both lines can be done in that little sardine shed at Darling Harbour, so it remains to be seen where the real new workshops will be. Or maybe they're hoping to buy trams with high reliability.
cheers
Tony P
--- In [email protected], <[email protected]> wrote:
The most recent plans show that stabling for the SELR w ill be at Randwick, in the former racecourse tram sidings area, although "heavy maintenance" will be at the new facility to be constructed at Lilyfield.
As the Dulwich Hill line trams won't have "batteries", they won't be able to operate to Circular Quay, so there is no need for a Hay St to north connection. My thought was that DH trams could travel via Rawson Place to interchange with SE trams and then terminate in the "third road" at Eddy Ave - this would eliminate the loop, and still give passengers easy access to Central Station.
I remember watching the laying of tracks along Hay St and across George. I forget the full details of how it was done, but did think at the time it would be extremely difficult to dig up if junctions were to be laid for the Pitt/Castlereagh loop being propose d at that time.
Brian
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Noel Reed
Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013 3:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Adam Greaves; Matthew Geier; Terry Boardman; Greg Sutherland
Subject: [TramsDownUnder] RE: A Grand Union Junction for Sydney. [2 Attachments]
The published concept for the light rail route from the CBD to Randwick via George Street assumes that it would operate independently from the Railway Colonnade to Lilyfield and Dulwich Hill route. This being the case, the CBD route via George Street would need stabling and maintenance facilities, possibly in the Randwick area, from where daily services would commence and finish.. If the only stabling facility is to be near Lilyfield, it would require considerable empty operation of trams to reach the CBD - Randwick route at the commencement and finish of services.
Following my proposal for a grand union junction at George and Hay Streets, Sydney It was suggested that the curves from George Street (both north and south) into Hay Street (west), towards Lilyfield and Dulwich Hill would be of value, as they would be extensively used for depot movements.
The curves from George Street towards Hay Street (east) and the Railway Colonnade terminus may not be of such value, by themselves, but looking to the future, they could form a return balloon loop via Hay and Elizabeth Street to Eddy Avenue, where they would join the Randwick route. Such a return loop could serve a dual purpose as a return balloon loop for trams from Circular Quay to Sydney Station if every tram from Circular Quay does not require to proceed through to Randwick. This return loop via Elizabeth Street would leave the existing inward Lilyfield route at Hay and Castlereagh Street (See the above attachment). Overhead wires would not be required in Elizabeth Street towards Eddy Avenue as the trams operating on the George Street route could travel this short distance in capacitor mode.
Most daily tram movements at George and Hay Streets would simply be via the square crossing in the middle of the intersection. The standard coordinated road traffic signals would satisfactorily control these movements as long as appropriate priority was given to trams. It would be appropriate however for depot working or loop movements on each route to have a person on site to initiate signalled turning movements between George and Hay Streets. The re-installation of a replica of the 1937 Hay Street signal box would be a suitable location as the adjacent junctions would be in clear view. It could remotely operate the points at Castlereagh Street, Eddy Avenue and Rawson place assisted by the use of CCTV . It could also have remote surveillance of the track circuited line to Lilyfield and Dulwich Hill as well as the outer part of the Randwick line. ( The 1937 track arrangement at Hay and George Streets junction is as shown the above attachment. ) The return loop from Hay Street to George Street via Parker and Barlow Streets could form part of an emergency terminus if the George Street tramway is to be extended via Broadway towards Annandale and Newtown.
If a grand union junction is chosen for George and Hay Streets, it could be designed and constructed by Australian or overseas tramway track manufacturers and assembled on site over several weekend road possessions.
Many years ago, there was an article published about the 'relief lines' of the Sydney Tramway System. These relief lines which generally provided connection between adjacent tram routes. were considered as forward thinking to allow trams to operate via alternate routes if their normal route was obstructed by a derailment, motor accident or an important parade as in George Street on Anzac Day. I believe that it would be wise to take unforeseen possibilities into consideration as emergency shunting at an intermediate crossover would be time consuming.
My suggestion for an extension from Lilyfield to White Bay cruise ship terminal and another possible extension at Circular Quay west to the Sydney Cove cruise ship terminal, could provide convenient transport for passengers and luggage to and from cruise ships which arrive and d epart Sydney Harbour almost every day. Tram connections to and from both cruise ship terminals could operate to or from the Railway Colonnade as limited stop "boat trams" which would give greater convenience for cruise passengers from country or interstate destinations. There is no public transport to the existing cruise ship terminals so the majority of present day passengers must use taxis which in future will need to take routes through the city other than directly via George Street.
Noel Reed.
From: Noel Reed [mailto:noelreed10@...]
Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 10:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: A Grand Union Junction for Sydney.
Further to the discussions about Overhead Wires in George Street, I was l ooking at a Google Maps picture of the intersection of George Street and Hay Street, Sydney.
The current Sydney CBD Light Rail scheme proposes a crossing at George and Hay Streets between the existing Railway Colonnade to Lilyfield (and Dulwich Hill) light rail route and the planned Circular Quay to Randwick light rail route.
A suggestion for maximum flexibility of the light rail network could be a "grand union" junction between these two intersecting routes at George and Hay Streets.
< span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Such a four way junction would allow both passenger and depot working between the two routes.
Possibilities could be --
1. Randwick to Dulwich Hill, Circular Quay or Colonnade.
2. Colonnade to Randwick, Dulwich Hill or Circular Quay.
3. Circular Quay to Colonnade, Randwick or Dulwich Hill.
4. Dulwich Hill to Circular Quay, Colonnade or Randwick.
A reconstructed George and Hay Street signal box would be in the perfect location to control trams and ensure that the maximum flexibility was achieved. A tourist possibility might be a Sydney Colonial Restaurant Tram which could use this grand union to provide a variety of scenic routes for diners both day and night.
One of my recent suggestions was for a rail service to the recently opened cruise ship terminal at White Bay near the former railway power station. Rail tracks have existed between the Lilyfield tram terminus and White Bay ever since the Dulwich Hill - Rozelle railway was closed. The provision of even a single track between Lilyfield and White Bay could allow tram transport to and from cruise ships during their times in po rt. It would also allow an evening restaurant tram to deliver cruise passengers back to the ship before sailing.
The tramway signal box at George & Hay Streets was the last elevated tramway signal box built in Sydney (1937) to divert city bound trams to a loop via Hay, Parker and Barlow Streets when George Street was unavailable due to major outdoor functions between Martin Place and Sydney Town Hall. (See attachment) It also allowed trams from George Street to proceed to Circular Quay via Hay and Castlereagh Streets.
This signal box was of modern (perhaps Art Deco) design and was identical to the railway signal box at Civi c Station near Newcastle. (See attachment). The Civic signal box replaced a very old signal box with mechanical interlocking at the Merewether Street level crossing. At the same time, interlocked swing gates were replaced by electro-pneumatic boom gates which produced a very satisfying sound of compressed air when they operated.
Noel Reed. Asking could Sydney have Australia's third "Grand Onion".
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