Re: Re: Running Ws & Other Old Cars In Service

IS Edit
Thursday, December 6, 2001 12:37 AM

Bruce:

I agree with the need for such a group and even the general idea of the name
but it needs to be shorter so it sticks in people's minds to increase
branding power so "Melbourne Tramways Trust" would be much better. The other
is too long and not necessary even though it plays to the historical name of
the M&MTB.

Most people didn't even know what M&MTB stood for.

Any organisation we set up to improve things here should be memorable and
obfuscating with extraneous words/concepts in a title would not be an
auspicious start.

Cheers,

Bob Murphy
----- Original Message -----
From: "brgamble" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:12 AM
Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Running Ws & Other Old Cars In Service

I'm following this thread keenly. It may be of interest that here in
Auckland there is the recently incorporated the "Auckland Electric
Tramways Trust": brief to act as a supporter and "ginger" group for
Ak's tramway (and other urban transport) heritage - main focus MOTAT
at present. The name is a play on the old Auckland Electric Tramways
Co Ltd (which coy has recently been reactivated by a member).
If a tinpot place like Auckland (with essentially no effective public
transport) can get some folk together, why not Melbourne. Why not
the "Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Trust"? Or are the gunzels
in control? And btw, I am the NZ member of the COTMA executive, so
you'd better watch out, ha ha ha.

--- In TramsDownUnder@y..., "Greg King" <tramway@a...> wrote:
Hi John,

You have hit the nail right on the head in every aspect, I even
accept your
critique of what I said about the gutterliners but, it was to
stress a
point. You are absolutely right in the need for a vocal focus group
and YOU
are well aware of lack of co-operation between groups and
individuals, not
just trams, but trains, buses, you name it. The tramway museum
could have
had the best operation in the world a few years ago but, they were
scared
they would'nt be able to play trams whenever they wanted, to the
loss of the
preservation movement also, because of their attitudes (and you
know the
gunzels I elude to) they have no respect (and deservedly so) from
government
or the companies. As for the fare collection, again, guilty as
charged, it's
a half arsed system loosely based on European practise, the
difference is,
in Europe it works, I know why but it would take all night to
explain and
get us nowhere. I have contacted Bob Murphy off list and something
MAY
happen in the future, keep in touch off line, it's very sensitive
and I have
to tread carefully due to my position, Muni has the Market Street
Railway
group, maybe we can have a Bourke Street Railway group!! Better
still, how
about a group called the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways
Board????????

By the way, don't sell yourself short, as far as I'm concerned you
are an
honourary Melbournian

Greg

While I am not a full time Melbourian, I have and do spend
enough time
there to be able to understand what is going on there. One thing
that is
definitely missing in Melbourne is fan and enthusiast support for
the
trams. Oh yeah, they all do a lot of talking, but when it comes
to "Put Up
or Shut Up", they shut up. It is almost like Philadelphia - there
are
zillions of fans, but none of them can get their act together.
Melbourne
drastically needs an organization like Market Street Railway in
S.F. to
pull together most of the fansto put pressure on the Government and
the
operating tram companies. There is a tremendous amount of
infighting among
tram fans inAustralia, and getting one faction to agree with
another is like
mediating a war cease-fire. Some like the Ws while others hate
them and
call the ones who do like them idiots, some like the new cars,
while
certain others (mainly a few in Sydney - and I'm sure many will
know who I
mean) think that only their views are valid. And to Greg, while I
certainly respect you and your views, I do think that the majority
of your
passengers would much rather be on a tram than a gutterliner.
It's just
that the apathy in Melbourne is legendary. And don't even get me
started on
fare evasion. The Government and the operators have brought that
entire
fiasco on themselves, and short of changing the entire system to a
PAYE
operation with front entrance and center exit cars (and even
embracing that
"awful American and Canadian system" of fareboxes - which does
work even on
super heavy loading routes - and has for eons), the fare evasion
will not
stop. Melbourne had a chance to go to a PAYE farebox system with
the Z1
and Z2 trams, let it slip a little with the Z3s, and then
absolutely blew
it with the As and Bs. One man operation cannot, and in my
opinion, will
not ever work with all those wide open doors. It has become a
sport to see
how often you can ride without ever paying a fare. I know people
who have
not paid a fare in three years! It is remarkably easy to beat the
system,
with just a little bit of effort and inconvenience. The "official
line"
fare evasion rate of approx. 12% is absurd - all one has to do is
ride a
lot and it is obvious that well over 50% of tram passengers have no
intention of buying a ticket, and if they do have one it is only
to be used
when inspectors get on the tram. When one does get on, there is
always a
mad dash to the validators and ticket machines. Anyway, back to the
subject -- All the Melbourne fans have to get together and put
theirmoney
and their efforts where their mouths are. There are 200 Ws at
Newport and
Preston just waiting for a chance to get out and stretch their legs
again.
200 extra trams would draw a whole heck of a lotof passengers back
to public
transport. ++++++++++++ John Engleman

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