The impetus for automation (GoA4) comes from the operators, not the
manufacturers who are only responding to a latent demand, and the reasons
are not so different from train automation, extrapolated to a street
environment.
https://railsystem.net/metro-automation/
Also, for the operators, it's not a matter of increasing profits because
there are none. It's about reining in huge losses. One of the significant
reasons that we can't improve health or education even more is that so much
money that could be used for that purpose is sucked into the financial
black hole of public transport systems. So the general trend is to try to
make them at least break even, without having to charge users extortionate
fares or reducing services. That leaves cost savings and one of the biggest
operational costs in a public transport system is staff.
Tony P
On Saturday, 10 December 2022 at 06:05:26 UTC+11stuart....@... wrote:
> It's worth bearing in mind that the people promoting automation aren't
> doing it for altruistic reasons. Those doing the selling have a product
> they want to make money from; those doing the buying also want to make
> money by reducing costs and/or increasing profits.
>
> Both groups of people then work hard to convince the rest of us that
> their products are not only desirable for us, but actually essential. (Eg,
> "more trains/trams more often" - but they need to be computer controlled
> because human drivers can't do it, even though we can all remember
> continuous lines of W class trams running down Swanston St in the peaks in
> the 1970s, 80s and 90s.
>
> Cost is another issue. How often are we as a society told that we can't
> afford a better health system? Or a better education system? Or to provide
> emergency accommodation for women fleeing domestic violence?
>
> As it turns out, there is money available, it's just being spent in ways
> that don't benefit the general populace.
>
> S
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022, 14:56 TP histor...@...> wrote:
>
>> The satellite-based systems will still be needed for operations, but,
>> yes, the automation should be on board. The satellite based comms to
>> manufacturers are also widely used on private motor cars, have been for
>> some years. They already know when your car needs service and what needs
>> attention before you do. The older, savvy owner will still keep an
>> independent eye on things of course, but not needed for the average A to B
>> motorist.
>>
>> I see Adelaide, Canberra, Gold Coast, Sydney and Newcastle systems as all
>> being basically ready for automation when the technology is firmed.
>> Melbourne would have to approach it on a route by route basis.
>>
>> Any clues as to who that big company with the big mouth might be? I know
>> of a couple of such companies in the public transport field!
>>
>> Tony P
>>
>> On Wednesday, 7 December 2022 at 12:59:31 UTC+11
>>mat...@... wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/12/22 11:42, Tony Galloway wrote:
>>>
>>> I don’t think that this path is a smooth as many assume.
>>>
>>> Here’s a couple of things that might just make it a dead end :
>>>
>>> The Great 1859 Solar Storm - Carrington Event - YouTube
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUhK7WzprU4
>>>
>>> Kessler Syndrome - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP-OwOc1AFQ
>>>
>>> Just saying
>>>
>>> I see the leading edge of this tech and the amount of money being thrown
>>> at it due to where I work.
>>>
>>>
>>> The biggest problem with automated street transport at this time is the
>>> big mouth of a certain company CEO who is prone to making outrageous claims
>>> about his companies products. There are many other companies quietly
>>> working on and deploying the enabling technologies.
>>>
>>> None of these enabling techs require satellite based location systems or
>>> mobile radio network communication to work. The eventual deployed robust
>>> systems will be truly autonomous. Cut the cable to the satellite/5G antenna
>>> and they will still work.
>>>
>>> The mobile comms stuff is just fluff to allow the vendors to rip the
>>> user off with 'fee for service' options and data collection for the sake of
>>> data collection. And this sort of thing has already invaded public
>>> transport - all new buses, trams and trains have mobile datalinks back to
>>> the manufactures maintenance centers, collecting large amounts of data and
>>> the guise of 'optimizing maintenance'.
>>>
>>> Mercedes even has a series of adverts spruiking this feature on their
>>> commercial vehicle line. We are looking after you sort of thing.
>>>
>>> As much as they try however, the world is still going to need fitters,
>>> mechanics and diagnostic technicians.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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