Melbourne, Christchurch
dayoung007
Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:22 AM
I haven't seen full replies to the queries posed concerning the
difference between W5 and W7 cars in Melbourne, nor to the cars being
used on the Christchurch Tramway, so I'll add my two cents worth in
the hope that others in the group can both finish off and correct the
information.
The information posted in the last day or two on the W5/W7 is
essentially correct. However, courtesy of the bible on this subject
"Destination City- Melbourne's Electric Trams" 1993 edition (Has there
been another since then? If so, where can one buy it and how much?)the
following might amplify things a little.
The various classes of W cars were built from 1923 to 1955. Many of
the earlier classes were upgraded to later classes subsequently. As
built, the 4-motor W5 was preceded by the 2-motor CW5, which was a new
car body design mounted on used trucks, brakes and electrical gear
from earlier (not W class) cars.
These were built in 1934/5 as a depression project and a further 34
were proposed, but not built because the first five were regarded as
unsatisfactory. All the same, they ran in that condition until finally
being upgraded to W5 in 1956.
CW5 cars were 681-5, with Brill 22E maximum traction trucks.
The W5 followed, using the same body design as the CW5 but new
equipment and was built between 1935 and 1939. Both classes used the
3-door drop-center layout typical of Melbourne. A modernization
program began in the 1970s but was later dropped in favor of upgrading
all the cars to SW5 status.
W5 cars were 720-839, with MMTB 15 trucks.
The last 10 W5 class cars were built 1939-40 as SW5 class, a design
upgrade. Among other things, instead of open drop-center entrances,
there were sliding doors and the cars generally resembled a new SW6
class being built at this time.
SW5 cars were 840-849, with MMTB 15 trucks. Two W5 cars were converted
to SW5 in 1956, eighty-three more converted to SW5 1983-1986.
W7 class cars were very similar to SW5, W6 and SW6-class cars, and I
could not tell them apart when I was in Melbourne, except by their
fleet number. They were built 1955/56 and I don't know why they
weren't designated SW7 as they had the sliding doors from new.
Probably it was because they had resilient wheels, rudimentary
soundproofing and double helical gears, similar to the SW6 cars (of
1939-51) being re-equipped with such equipment at about the same time.
Perhaps also they weren't SW7 cars because the last what-should-have-
been SW6 cars (970-79, 981-1000) were actually built new with this
equipment between 1951 and 1955, and were always known as W6 cars.
W7 cars were 1001-1040, with MMTB 15 trucks. All the resilient-wheel
cars lost them in favor of steel wheels between 1965 and 1970. I have
never seen a good explanation as to why. Does anyone know?
So far as Christchurch is concerned, when the Tourist Tramway opened
on February 4th, 1995 it was regarded as the first new tramway to open
anywhere in Australasia for nearly 90 years. Since then, of course,
the Sydney light Rail line has opened and been extended.
I understand that the Christchurch City Council had been deeply
impressed by the work of the Tramway Historical Society at its
Ferrymead Tramway site (Heathcote) and so concluded that any heritage
operation should be the real thing and not rubber-tired "replicas".
The franchisee of the tramway has thus leased almost all of the
operating cars from Ferrymead. The rental revenues have given a major
boost to the museum and has allowed it to pay for two full-time
restorers (as of 1998-is this still the case?) and materials to
completely restore a car to operatiing standards every two years or
so. The THS moved onto the Ferrymead site in the mid-1960s and by 1967
had put up the first car barn. Steam tram service began January 6th,
1968, electric cars in May (what day?) 1970.
Christchurch itself had closed its system on September 11th, 1954 but
did hang onto a couple of relics, including steam tram 7 (the last
operational Kitson steam tram, built in my home-town of Leeds UK) and
Christchurch 43, a horse car. The THS was established in 1961 to
safeguard No. 7's future and was successful enough at its job that by
1964 the Christchurch authorities were persuaded that the THS was just
the body to look after the relics permanently.
A massive collection of New Zealand transport relics was amassed
subsequently, from both islands, covering trams, buses and trolley
buses. Restoration has been undertaken to a very high standard and
there have been a number of truck replications done where no trucks
existed, something done elsewhere in the museum world only at Fort
Edmonton (Edmonton Radial Railway Society) Canada and at the Crich
Tramway Village (the new name for the museum better known as the
National Tramway Museum) UK.
I must confess to being a little surprised at the question asked
regarding the Brill 21E truck, surely the most universal of all single
trucks ever manufactured and one of the longest-lived of designs, with
Glasgow still making long-wheelbase replicas (from bought-in forgings)
in the mid-1950s, sixty years after it was first designed.
Brussels too was at this time having a field day modifying the design
and while roller-bearing Brill 21Es weren't unknown elsewhere (Glasgow
again being the most prolific user), Brussels updated the design with
rubber all over the place, helical and/or resilient gears etc. etc. to
produce a long-wheelbase truck of pretty reasonable riding qualities--
at least on their 9000-class cars of the 1960s. Not so much on their
4000-class articulateds, a very odd class indeed.
That is saying a lot about the ruggedness and general suitability of
the basic 21E truck and its derivatives (made under license-sometimes,
or pirated-frequently in countries outside the US). It always seemed
to me that 21E-fitted cars rode like a brick, but from an engineering,
operating and maintenance point of view (frequently in 1950s England
of the "'ere lad, tek this hammer and give the bugger a wallop,
that'll fix 'er" level of sophistication) they took all sorts of
punishment without breaking down.
So as the Christchurch (Dunedin) car uses an ex-Brussels long-
wheelbase 21E, I would think it's a pretty good riding car, and
robust. Without first-hand knowledge, however, (I haven't yet been,
but hope to be there in May) I don't know for sure. Can someone help
on this?
The following is a tentative roster of Ferrymead cars leased to
Christchurch in 1998. It is not believed to be complete, and
would benefit from any help for those better informed than I as to
a). updating
b). filling in the "Not known" entries.
CAR BUILDER & DATE TRUCKS CAR TYPE AND NOTES
Brisbane 236 Home-built, 1925 Home-built DE DT drop-center
standard city car
This car is on loan from the Wellington Transport Museum Society's
museum at Paekakariki, North Island.
Christchurch 1 Stephenson, 1905 Brill 21-E DE ST California car
In 1997, this was being restored for Christchurch. Is it done yet?
Christchurch 115 Boon, 1908 Not known DE ST Trailer
Christchurch 152 Boon, 1915 Replica DE DT Boon drop-
Peckham 14D5 center city car
Christchurch 178 Boon, 1922 Brill 77-E-2 SE DT city car
Dunedin 11 Brill, 1903 Brill 21-E DE ST city car
Dunedin 18 Guthrie & Larnach, Pedestal DE ST horse car
build date unknown
In 1997, this was said to be running at Christchurch.Was it and is it?
Melbourne 244 Home-built, 1925 Melbourne Type 1 DE DT Type W2
drop-center city
(restaurant)car
DE = Double-end
SE = Single-end
DT = Double truck
ST = Single truck
Andrew D. Young
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difference between W5 and W7 cars in Melbourne, nor to the cars being
used on the Christchurch Tramway, so I'll add my two cents worth in
the hope that others in the group can both finish off and correct the
information.
The information posted in the last day or two on the W5/W7 is
essentially correct. However, courtesy of the bible on this subject
"Destination City- Melbourne's Electric Trams" 1993 edition (Has there
been another since then? If so, where can one buy it and how much?)the
following might amplify things a little.
The various classes of W cars were built from 1923 to 1955. Many of
the earlier classes were upgraded to later classes subsequently. As
built, the 4-motor W5 was preceded by the 2-motor CW5, which was a new
car body design mounted on used trucks, brakes and electrical gear
from earlier (not W class) cars.
These were built in 1934/5 as a depression project and a further 34
were proposed, but not built because the first five were regarded as
unsatisfactory. All the same, they ran in that condition until finally
being upgraded to W5 in 1956.
CW5 cars were 681-5, with Brill 22E maximum traction trucks.
The W5 followed, using the same body design as the CW5 but new
equipment and was built between 1935 and 1939. Both classes used the
3-door drop-center layout typical of Melbourne. A modernization
program began in the 1970s but was later dropped in favor of upgrading
all the cars to SW5 status.
W5 cars were 720-839, with MMTB 15 trucks.
The last 10 W5 class cars were built 1939-40 as SW5 class, a design
upgrade. Among other things, instead of open drop-center entrances,
there were sliding doors and the cars generally resembled a new SW6
class being built at this time.
SW5 cars were 840-849, with MMTB 15 trucks. Two W5 cars were converted
to SW5 in 1956, eighty-three more converted to SW5 1983-1986.
W7 class cars were very similar to SW5, W6 and SW6-class cars, and I
could not tell them apart when I was in Melbourne, except by their
fleet number. They were built 1955/56 and I don't know why they
weren't designated SW7 as they had the sliding doors from new.
Probably it was because they had resilient wheels, rudimentary
soundproofing and double helical gears, similar to the SW6 cars (of
1939-51) being re-equipped with such equipment at about the same time.
Perhaps also they weren't SW7 cars because the last what-should-have-
been SW6 cars (970-79, 981-1000) were actually built new with this
equipment between 1951 and 1955, and were always known as W6 cars.
W7 cars were 1001-1040, with MMTB 15 trucks. All the resilient-wheel
cars lost them in favor of steel wheels between 1965 and 1970. I have
never seen a good explanation as to why. Does anyone know?
So far as Christchurch is concerned, when the Tourist Tramway opened
on February 4th, 1995 it was regarded as the first new tramway to open
anywhere in Australasia for nearly 90 years. Since then, of course,
the Sydney light Rail line has opened and been extended.
I understand that the Christchurch City Council had been deeply
impressed by the work of the Tramway Historical Society at its
Ferrymead Tramway site (Heathcote) and so concluded that any heritage
operation should be the real thing and not rubber-tired "replicas".
The franchisee of the tramway has thus leased almost all of the
operating cars from Ferrymead. The rental revenues have given a major
boost to the museum and has allowed it to pay for two full-time
restorers (as of 1998-is this still the case?) and materials to
completely restore a car to operatiing standards every two years or
so. The THS moved onto the Ferrymead site in the mid-1960s and by 1967
had put up the first car barn. Steam tram service began January 6th,
1968, electric cars in May (what day?) 1970.
Christchurch itself had closed its system on September 11th, 1954 but
did hang onto a couple of relics, including steam tram 7 (the last
operational Kitson steam tram, built in my home-town of Leeds UK) and
Christchurch 43, a horse car. The THS was established in 1961 to
safeguard No. 7's future and was successful enough at its job that by
1964 the Christchurch authorities were persuaded that the THS was just
the body to look after the relics permanently.
A massive collection of New Zealand transport relics was amassed
subsequently, from both islands, covering trams, buses and trolley
buses. Restoration has been undertaken to a very high standard and
there have been a number of truck replications done where no trucks
existed, something done elsewhere in the museum world only at Fort
Edmonton (Edmonton Radial Railway Society) Canada and at the Crich
Tramway Village (the new name for the museum better known as the
National Tramway Museum) UK.
I must confess to being a little surprised at the question asked
regarding the Brill 21E truck, surely the most universal of all single
trucks ever manufactured and one of the longest-lived of designs, with
Glasgow still making long-wheelbase replicas (from bought-in forgings)
in the mid-1950s, sixty years after it was first designed.
Brussels too was at this time having a field day modifying the design
and while roller-bearing Brill 21Es weren't unknown elsewhere (Glasgow
again being the most prolific user), Brussels updated the design with
rubber all over the place, helical and/or resilient gears etc. etc. to
produce a long-wheelbase truck of pretty reasonable riding qualities--
at least on their 9000-class cars of the 1960s. Not so much on their
4000-class articulateds, a very odd class indeed.
That is saying a lot about the ruggedness and general suitability of
the basic 21E truck and its derivatives (made under license-sometimes,
or pirated-frequently in countries outside the US). It always seemed
to me that 21E-fitted cars rode like a brick, but from an engineering,
operating and maintenance point of view (frequently in 1950s England
of the "'ere lad, tek this hammer and give the bugger a wallop,
that'll fix 'er" level of sophistication) they took all sorts of
punishment without breaking down.
So as the Christchurch (Dunedin) car uses an ex-Brussels long-
wheelbase 21E, I would think it's a pretty good riding car, and
robust. Without first-hand knowledge, however, (I haven't yet been,
but hope to be there in May) I don't know for sure. Can someone help
on this?
The following is a tentative roster of Ferrymead cars leased to
Christchurch in 1998. It is not believed to be complete, and
would benefit from any help for those better informed than I as to
a). updating
b). filling in the "Not known" entries.
CAR BUILDER & DATE TRUCKS CAR TYPE AND NOTES
Brisbane 236 Home-built, 1925 Home-built DE DT drop-center
standard city car
This car is on loan from the Wellington Transport Museum Society's
museum at Paekakariki, North Island.
Christchurch 1 Stephenson, 1905 Brill 21-E DE ST California car
In 1997, this was being restored for Christchurch. Is it done yet?
Christchurch 115 Boon, 1908 Not known DE ST Trailer
Christchurch 152 Boon, 1915 Replica DE DT Boon drop-
Peckham 14D5 center city car
Christchurch 178 Boon, 1922 Brill 77-E-2 SE DT city car
Dunedin 11 Brill, 1903 Brill 21-E DE ST city car
Dunedin 18 Guthrie & Larnach, Pedestal DE ST horse car
build date unknown
In 1997, this was said to be running at Christchurch.Was it and is it?
Melbourne 244 Home-built, 1925 Melbourne Type 1 DE DT Type W2
drop-center city
(restaurant)car
DE = Double-end
SE = Single-end
DT = Double truck
ST = Single truck
Andrew D. Young
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/zoU8wD/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/DiTxlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/