Re: Re: Preserving Modern tramcars

  "brgamble <[email protected]>" <[email protected]> wrote:

I think this has been a useful debate and Kevin's warnings are spot
on. Restoring wooden cars is one thing - but we at Western Springs
Tramway have a major 'culture change' ahead of us when we get to
restore our Auckland 'Semi-steel' car which is essentially one of the
first 'chassis-less' types and contains a great amount of structural
(steel) panel work.
Kevin's comments regarding electrical and control systems also strike
a note with us. While almost anyone with good manual skills can learn
to work on car bodies, it takes a lot more experience and knowledge
to attack the electrical side...what percentage of our museum members
have the skills to wire up a controller (particularly from 1st
principles)or investigate a major motor fault? I dare say less than
5% and getting smaller by the day. This is quite aside from the even
greater knowledge required for solid state systems. I believe this is
a major issue facing preservationists in the future.
A brief footnote on a different issue...perhaps we must all think
twice, count to ten, if the word 'you' appears in any posting to this
group. Try rephrasing your message without that word and the debate
will stay on a more even keel I believe.
Cheers
Bruce

--- In [email protected], "Kevin Taig" <ktaig@f...>
wrote:
> The debate seems to have gone off the track into the personal area,
ceased to move forward and be meaningful.
>
> For any organisation considering purchase of a 25 year old vehicle
should go into it with their eyes open.
> When you go into a used motor car lot, the object is to select a
car with no rust and the possibility of mechanical  soundness
consistent with long term hip pocket health - what is on the number
plate is almost irrelevant.
>
> A good one will cost very little more than a bad one on initial
cost, but now comes the rub of selecting a bad one.
>
> Scarce additional financial volunteer resources will be required to
rehabilitate this bad one so that it may make the DOI specification.
The introduction of the Department of Infrastructure into the
equation for preserved railways/tramways in general will mean
increased standards of restoration - more $$$. Overall this mean less
resources for restoring other cars which have been patiently waiting
their turn.
>
> The selection of a car which has had recent bodywork is sound
enough, even sounder if a recent inspection of possible trouble spots
reveals all is well.
>
> The restoration of these steel cars requires different skills to
those existing in the volunteer workforce. Its great that metal can
be cut and then re-joined by the magic mending sticks but being able
to weld uphand, overhead etc requires more skills than this mug
downhand volunteer welder-put togetherer possesses. The purchase of a
more refined welding machine will make this job easier and may repay
its cost in saved volunteer (or paid) time but there is still the
skill factor.
>
> Those of us who went to Bendigo for the 30th Anniv, - Chrissie
party show all saw X1 466 up on the blocks with body work all cut and
shut. Not a bad job when you consider the degree of difficulty and
the parent metal they may have had to start with.  At the STM at
Loftus they had Joe Kirtchberger who did some good work on various
steel cars. It can be done but the resources are extremely slim, the
alternative outsourcing - more $$.
>
> So here we are ready to buy, whatever the organisation, eyes wide
open with long term vision spectacles on and hopefully politics and
personals left far at home - this is about dollars, present, future
and scarce.
>
> Tyres
> Other things to be considered are tyres in order that we do not set
our descendants up for large expenses in the future. This was
probably not considered with "must get " trams of the past but where
there is a need to satisfy the DOI accreditation criteria, long term -
get the best. OK, at present they can be bought for $4or $500 from
South Africa - but the future.
> If a car must be sidelined in the future because of tyres, then all
the preservation effort up to that time is degraded.
> 
> Control Systems
> We have lived through a marvellous technological age which started
out as glass encased transistors(valves), through discrete
semiconductor components to computerised digital control. The problem
is that such semiconductor components in the transitional phase,
usually only have a technological life of around 15 years and after
that it's "Sorry mate but they went out 10 years ago". This sort of
equipment is usually leave the premises in bulk in a dumpmaster

  Bruce,

  Is the semi steel car Auckland no 253? Is the Wellington group going to

  try and obtain a Z class?

 Jeff

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