Daffynitions...............
Jim Holland
Wednesday, May 29, 2002 8:04 PM
Good Morning!
SUMMARY: -->> Why would anyone want to drive to a TrolleyCar Museum if it
is believed by the general public that rubber-tired vehicles are trolleys?
This was pointed out by Mr. Rick Murphy on one of the lists and I have
copied and reformatted his comments for easy reading below --- never
personally thought about this angle. While I am offended by *tired*
vehicles being called trolleycars, this adverse impact on the Museums adds
a new dimension.
True, language and definitions *might* evolve from usage and make the
dictionary obsolete, but this is actually the dumbing--down of the language
and society in general --- maybe that is the reason between true
English and American!(:->) I believe the Dictionary is a Standard and
should be followed and *updated* through official channels.
By definition a *streetcar* must run on rails (power source is Not
indicated) and is used in transit usually in city streets. A
*trolleycar* must also run on rails and by definition is electric. Thus,
those *tired* vehicles do not fit the definition.
CHALLENGE: May be far-fetched to consider a lawsuit for
*Truth-In-Advertizing* --- but what other choice is there?
Can we:::::::
1)--Discuss Options Here?
2)--Compile Options?
3)--Recommend A Course of Action?
4)--Initiate the Action?
5)--Back, fund, and Support such Action?
P.S. I don't know where *tired* vehicles looking like trolleys started
but do know that San Francisco has had *tired* cable cars without rails
for quite a few decades!
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
Gentlemen:
As Andre says, "How the language changes..." The famous linguist Richard
Lederer preaches that the English language is constantly evolving, and I
suppose that's OK. But that doesn't excuse trying to sell a Yugo as a
Mercedes.
Some time ago, I was chatting with my pals at (what had been known as) The
East Troy Trolley Museum about their "positioning" in their PR. Sadly
(but understandably,) they were gun-shy about even using the word "trolley"
any longer because the nearby Milwaukee County transit operation had put so
much effort into marketing those buses with goofy, charicature "streetcar"
bodies as "trolleys."
I paraphrase, but in effect they said, "Why would anyone want to make the
drive out here if they thought that's all they were going to get?"
Wish there was some sort of "truth in advertising" law we could invoke:
"If it runs on rails and is electrified, go ahead and call it a 'trolley'
or a 'streetcar.' But if it's a BUS, you have to call it a BUS and no
more!"
But consider our society: Millions of dollars of advertising have
convinced our last few generations that Fast Food Grease is actually worthy
of being called "food."
Rick
Andre wrote:::::::
Yes, these are rubber tired "trolleys". It s unfortunate that now the
actual term "streetcars" is being applied to them. The public at large no
longer has a concept of a real streetcar to refer to, now a steel-wheeled
vehicle is a "light rail vehicle", and "streetcar" no longer refers to
anything on steel wheels. How the language changes over time!
Andre
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
These "goofy streetcar replicas" do serve a useful purpose, as far as
tourist-specific services go. The language has indeed changed over the
years. The term "trolley" does indeed mean a "rubber tired open or
semi-open bodied vehicle" to the man on the street. This is now too far
into common useage to be changed. However, the recent trend to call these
things "streetcars" is out-and-out bastardization of language. Is East
Troy going to be forced to rename itself the "East Troy Antique LRV Museum"
to conform to current language?
By the way, as a point of history, the rubber tired trolley got started in
New Orleans about 1970, when NOPSI wanted something unique to run on the
"Vieux Carre" route in the French Quarter, and built in their own shops
bodies fairly resembling a 900 which were mounted on Flxette chassis.
These were a great hit with tourists, and have gone stratosphere with
thousands being built by close to a dozen manufacturers. Most are run on
"tourist shuttles", but some have ended up on regular services too.
Andre
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
James B. Holland
Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
___"O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
______"O"--Scale Parts mailto:[email protected]
______Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
___Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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SUMMARY: -->> Why would anyone want to drive to a TrolleyCar Museum if it
is believed by the general public that rubber-tired vehicles are trolleys?
This was pointed out by Mr. Rick Murphy on one of the lists and I have
copied and reformatted his comments for easy reading below --- never
personally thought about this angle. While I am offended by *tired*
vehicles being called trolleycars, this adverse impact on the Museums adds
a new dimension.
True, language and definitions *might* evolve from usage and make the
dictionary obsolete, but this is actually the dumbing--down of the language
and society in general --- maybe that is the reason between true
English and American!(:->) I believe the Dictionary is a Standard and
should be followed and *updated* through official channels.
By definition a *streetcar* must run on rails (power source is Not
indicated) and is used in transit usually in city streets. A
*trolleycar* must also run on rails and by definition is electric. Thus,
those *tired* vehicles do not fit the definition.
CHALLENGE: May be far-fetched to consider a lawsuit for
*Truth-In-Advertizing* --- but what other choice is there?
Can we:::::::
1)--Discuss Options Here?
2)--Compile Options?
3)--Recommend A Course of Action?
4)--Initiate the Action?
5)--Back, fund, and Support such Action?
P.S. I don't know where *tired* vehicles looking like trolleys started
but do know that San Francisco has had *tired* cable cars without rails
for quite a few decades!
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 00:26:29 +0100
From: Rick Murphy <rmurphy@...>
Subject: Re: "Street cars" in Chicago
Gentlemen:
As Andre says, "How the language changes..." The famous linguist Richard
Lederer preaches that the English language is constantly evolving, and I
suppose that's OK. But that doesn't excuse trying to sell a Yugo as a
Mercedes.
Some time ago, I was chatting with my pals at (what had been known as) The
East Troy Trolley Museum about their "positioning" in their PR. Sadly
(but understandably,) they were gun-shy about even using the word "trolley"
any longer because the nearby Milwaukee County transit operation had put so
much effort into marketing those buses with goofy, charicature "streetcar"
bodies as "trolleys."
I paraphrase, but in effect they said, "Why would anyone want to make the
drive out here if they thought that's all they were going to get?"
Wish there was some sort of "truth in advertising" law we could invoke:
"If it runs on rails and is electrified, go ahead and call it a 'trolley'
or a 'streetcar.' But if it's a BUS, you have to call it a BUS and no
more!"
But consider our society: Millions of dollars of advertising have
convinced our last few generations that Fast Food Grease is actually worthy
of being called "food."
Rick
Andre wrote:::::::
Yes, these are rubber tired "trolleys". It s unfortunate that now the
actual term "streetcars" is being applied to them. The public at large no
longer has a concept of a real streetcar to refer to, now a steel-wheeled
vehicle is a "light rail vehicle", and "streetcar" no longer refers to
anything on steel wheels. How the language changes over time!
Andre
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:57:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: ajkristopans@...
Subject: Re: "Street cars" in Chicago
These "goofy streetcar replicas" do serve a useful purpose, as far as
tourist-specific services go. The language has indeed changed over the
years. The term "trolley" does indeed mean a "rubber tired open or
semi-open bodied vehicle" to the man on the street. This is now too far
into common useage to be changed. However, the recent trend to call these
things "streetcars" is out-and-out bastardization of language. Is East
Troy going to be forced to rename itself the "East Troy Antique LRV Museum"
to conform to current language?
By the way, as a point of history, the rubber tired trolley got started in
New Orleans about 1970, when NOPSI wanted something unique to run on the
"Vieux Carre" route in the French Quarter, and built in their own shops
bodies fairly resembling a 900 which were mounted on Flxette chassis.
These were a great hit with tourists, and have gone stratosphere with
thousands being built by close to a dozen manufacturers. Most are run on
"tourist shuttles", but some have ended up on regular services too.
Andre
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
James B. Holland
Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
___"O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
______"O"--Scale Parts mailto:[email protected]
______Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
___Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/DiTxlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/