RE: Re: Bendy (Kiepe??) poles may be just the ticket for trolley buses
Brent Efford
Monday, May 13, 2002 10:22 PM
Hey, remember this was a newspaper article, written by the usual technically
illiterate journo!
The flexible poles being tested in Wellington were made by Graeme Butler 20
years ago when he was an engineering student and worked as a trolleybus
shiftman during university holidays. The then City Council-owned Transport
Department didn't want to know about developing anything that would make the
trolleys more attractive (they resented being forced to use trolleys by the
politicians) and Graeme was not allowed to pursue his experiments. The poles
lay in Graeme's basement until the breakthrough when he was employed by
Stagecoach last year to develop the new trolleys.
The two prototype bases which Graeme is going to use were manufactured by
the Beijing Trolleybus Company (in China, of course). Graeme has identified
several improvements which he is going to make to the prototypes, and which
he will get the BTC to incorporate in any production run for Wellington.
There may be Kiepe features in the design, but they are definitely not Kiepe
manufactured.
Having recently suffered the tragic death of a trolleybus driver, who was
hit by a careless driver while rewiring, Stagecoach is well aware of the
need to limit drivers' exposure to traffic.
Cheers,
Brent Efford
TechMedia Services
Co-ordinator, Transport 2000+ NZ
PO Box 2626, Wellington 6015
New Zealand
[email protected]
Ph (04) 801 9331, Fx (04) 801 9344
Mob 025 887 387
www.techmedia.co.nz
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Holland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 May 2002 8:04 a.m.
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Bendy (Kiepe??) poles may be just the
ticket for trolley buses
Good Morning!
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
Is this the official name of the new trolley poles -- Bendy--Poles??
This description sounds like the new Kiepe trolley poles on the ETI--Skoda
coaches in San Francisco -- Except that SF poles are covered with a white
fiberglass.
ALL trolley poles on ALL Trolley Coaches MUST have a swivel
base!!!!!!!
This sounds like a Kiepe-base which has an Air-Retriever. The concept is
not new -- it was used by Pacific Electric in Los Angeles almost
100--years ago!
If this is the Kiepe System, there are 2-options for tripping the air
retriever - 1)--pole rising to a pre-determined height and//or 2)--speed of
take-up wheels for keeping rope taut.
The Kiepe poles are not anywhere near as reliable as the old system they
are replacing in San Francisco. With a lighter pole comes less tension of
the shoe against the overhead -- a CRITICAL yet grossly Mis-Understood
element in keeping a shoe on the overhead wire. The new Kiepe poles
easily float off the overhead on simple turns and do so much more
frequently than the older system.
The Kiepe poles are several feet longer -- but do Not allow for greater
roaming. The shoe has a maximum swivel of 58-degrees left or right, not
360+++ degrees of the old system. And the longer & Lighter poles cause
the poles to shimmy more when moving thru special work which contributes to
dewirement.
With the old Ohio-Brass-type retriever the pole automatically centers over
the coach during dewirement. Because the Kiepe Air-retrievers are mounted
on the trolley pole base, the dewired poles would be free to swing around
to the front of the bus on a downgrade. Thus, when the retriever action
is tripped, a centering device is also employed to center the poles over
the coach.
Resetting the retriever is much more simple than the old Ohio-Brass-type
--- BUT....... the centering device, being air operated, is not so
cleanly cleared. The driver can hold the rope and walk 10-feet from the
coach and the pole remains centered over the coach -- the driver has to
force the pole to move from center and with the driving being on the
roadway, this increases the chance for an accident!
Additionally, a dewired pole moves up rather rapidly until the retriever
kicks in - then it moves down rather rapidly. This works faster than the
spring on the rope wheels and the ropes slide off the wheels resulting in
multiple pig-tails and tangles. Because this is inside the rear
compartment AND because 600-volt equipment is located there, the driver
cannot reset the rope wheels and must wait for a service call.
The Kiepe system has real potential -- but there are a number of
High-Profile Problems with the system which must be resolved first.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
James B. Holland
Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
___"O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
______"O"--Scale Parts mailto:[email protected]
______Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
___Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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illiterate journo!
The flexible poles being tested in Wellington were made by Graeme Butler 20
years ago when he was an engineering student and worked as a trolleybus
shiftman during university holidays. The then City Council-owned Transport
Department didn't want to know about developing anything that would make the
trolleys more attractive (they resented being forced to use trolleys by the
politicians) and Graeme was not allowed to pursue his experiments. The poles
lay in Graeme's basement until the breakthrough when he was employed by
Stagecoach last year to develop the new trolleys.
The two prototype bases which Graeme is going to use were manufactured by
the Beijing Trolleybus Company (in China, of course). Graeme has identified
several improvements which he is going to make to the prototypes, and which
he will get the BTC to incorporate in any production run for Wellington.
There may be Kiepe features in the design, but they are definitely not Kiepe
manufactured.
Having recently suffered the tragic death of a trolleybus driver, who was
hit by a careless driver while rewiring, Stagecoach is well aware of the
need to limit drivers' exposure to traffic.
Cheers,
Brent Efford
TechMedia Services
Co-ordinator, Transport 2000+ NZ
PO Box 2626, Wellington 6015
New Zealand
[email protected]
Ph (04) 801 9331, Fx (04) 801 9344
Mob 025 887 387
www.techmedia.co.nz
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Holland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 May 2002 8:04 a.m.
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Bendy (Kiepe??) poles may be just the
ticket for trolley buses
Good Morning!
____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:18:30 +1200
From: "Cawood, David" <[email protected]>
Subject: FW: Bendy poles may be just the ticket for trolley buses
Subject: Bendy poles may be just the ticket for trolley buses
New bendy trolley bus poles being tested in Wellington are expected tothe
cut the number of times the poles slip off tht overhead power wires.
Stagecoach engineering director Allan Cannell said yesterday that the
drivers had reported a significant drop in the number if incidents with
new poles, which have been fitted on two buses.
Because the poles were made of lighter-weight aluminium than wascurrently
used and were strengthened with a flexible, black fibreglass coating.
Is this the official name of the new trolley poles -- Bendy--Poles??
This description sounds like the new Kiepe trolley poles on the ETI--Skoda
coaches in San Francisco -- Except that SF poles are covered with a white
fiberglass.
The fibreglass gave the poles strength without detracting from their
flexibilty. A swivel base also allowed them to follow overhead wire more
easily.
ALL trolley poles on ALL Trolley Coaches MUST have a swivel
base!!!!!!!
Also being tested was a device that detected when a pole had detachedfrom
the wires, and pulled it down parallel to the bus roof, making it easierfor
the driver to retrieve.
This sounds like a Kiepe-base which has an Air-Retriever. The concept is
not new -- it was used by Pacific Electric in Los Angeles almost
100--years ago!
If this is the Kiepe System, there are 2-options for tripping the air
retriever - 1)--pole rising to a pre-determined height and//or 2)--speed of
take-up wheels for keeping rope taut.
The Kiepe poles are not anywhere near as reliable as the old system they
are replacing in San Francisco. With a lighter pole comes less tension of
the shoe against the overhead -- a CRITICAL yet grossly Mis-Understood
element in keeping a shoe on the overhead wire. The new Kiepe poles
easily float off the overhead on simple turns and do so much more
frequently than the older system.
The Kiepe poles are several feet longer -- but do Not allow for greater
roaming. The shoe has a maximum swivel of 58-degrees left or right, not
360+++ degrees of the old system. And the longer & Lighter poles cause
the poles to shimmy more when moving thru special work which contributes to
dewirement.
With the old Ohio-Brass-type retriever the pole automatically centers over
the coach during dewirement. Because the Kiepe Air-retrievers are mounted
on the trolley pole base, the dewired poles would be free to swing around
to the front of the bus on a downgrade. Thus, when the retriever action
is tripped, a centering device is also employed to center the poles over
the coach.
Resetting the retriever is much more simple than the old Ohio-Brass-type
--- BUT....... the centering device, being air operated, is not so
cleanly cleared. The driver can hold the rope and walk 10-feet from the
coach and the pole remains centered over the coach -- the driver has to
force the pole to move from center and with the driving being on the
roadway, this increases the chance for an accident!
Additionally, a dewired pole moves up rather rapidly until the retriever
kicks in - then it moves down rather rapidly. This works faster than the
spring on the rope wheels and the ropes slide off the wheels resulting in
multiple pig-tails and tangles. Because this is inside the rear
compartment AND because 600-volt equipment is located there, the driver
cannot reset the rope wheels and must wait for a service call.
The Kiepe system has real potential -- but there are a number of
High-Profile Problems with the system which must be resolved first.
"It [the new system] is less effort for the bus driver and [involves]less
time out of the bus" Mr Cannell said.
The Wellington trial of the poles is expected to run for about a year.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
James B. Holland
Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
___"O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
______"O"--Scale Parts mailto:[email protected]
______Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
___Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/DiTxlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/