Re: Running Ws & Other Old Cars In Service

Fair enough. Personally I'm not concerned what the organistion is
called - just that it is effective - in both name and deeds! Getting
hung up on the details - like voltage and pans/frogs, etc etc etc
etc, is what the detractors want. So see the big picture. Push the
principles! Get on with it!

--- In TramsDownUnder@y..., "IS Edit" <isedit@g...> wrote:

Bruce:

I agree with the need for such a group and even the general idea of

the name

but it needs to be shorter so it sticks in people's minds to

increase

branding power so "Melbourne Tramways Trust" would be much better.

The other

is too long and not necessary even though it plays to the

historical name of

the M&MTB.

Most people didn't even know what M&MTB stood for.

Any organisation we set up to improve things here should be

memorable and

obfuscating with extraneous words/concepts in a title would not be

an

auspicious start.

Cheers,

Bob Murphy
----- Original Message -----
From: "brgamble" <brgamble@y...>
To: <TramsDownUnder@y...>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:12 AM
Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Running Ws & Other Old Cars In Service

I'm following this thread keenly. It may be of interest that here

in

Auckland there is the recently incorporated the "Auckland Electric
Tramways Trust": brief to act as a supporter and "ginger" group

for

Ak's tramway (and other urban transport) heritage - main focus

MOTAT

at present. The name is a play on the old Auckland Electric

Tramways

Co Ltd (which coy has recently been reactivated by a member).
If a tinpot place like Auckland (with essentially no effective

public

transport) can get some folk together, why not Melbourne. Why not
the "Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Trust"? Or are the

gunzels

in control? And btw, I am the NZ member of the COTMA executive, so
you'd better watch out, ha ha ha.


--- In TramsDownUnder@y..., "Greg King" <tramway@a...> wrote:

Hi John,

You have hit the nail right on the head in every aspect, I even

accept your

critique of what I said about the gutterliners but, it was to

stress a

point. You are absolutely right in the need for a vocal focus

group

and YOU

are well aware of lack of co-operation between groups and

individuals, not

just trams, but trains, buses, you name it. The tramway museum

could have

had the best operation in the world a few years ago but, they

were

scared

they would'nt be able to play trams whenever they wanted, to the

loss of the

preservation movement also, because of their attitudes (and you

know the

gunzels I elude to) they have no respect (and deservedly so)

from

government

or the companies. As for the fare collection, again, guilty as

charged, it's

a half arsed system loosely based on European practise, the

difference is,

in Europe it works, I know why but it would take all night to

explain and

get us nowhere. I have contacted Bob Murphy off list and

something

MAY

happen in the future, keep in touch off line, it's very

sensitive

and I have

to tread carefully due to my position, Muni has the Market

Street

Railway

group, maybe we can have a Bourke Street Railway group!! Better

still, how

about a group called the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways

Board????????

By the way, don't sell yourself short, as far as I'm concerned

you

are an

honourary Melbournian

Greg

While I am not a full time Melbourian, I have and do spend

enough time

there to be able to understand what is going on there. One

thing

that is

definitely missing in Melbourne is fan and enthusiast support

for

the

trams. Oh yeah, they all do a lot of talking, but when it

comes

to "Put Up

or Shut Up", they shut up. It is almost like Philadelphia -

there

are

zillions of fans, but none of them can get their act together.

Melbourne

drastically needs an organization like Market Street Railway in

S.F. to

pull together most of the fansto put pressure on the Government

and

the

operating tram companies. There is a tremendous amount of

infighting among

tram fans inAustralia, and getting one faction to agree with

another is like

mediating a war cease-fire. Some like the Ws while others hate

them and

call the ones who do like them idiots, some like the new cars,

while

certain others (mainly a few in Sydney - and I'm sure many will

know who I

mean) think that only their views are valid. And to Greg,

while I

certainly respect you and your views, I do think that the

majority

of your

passengers would much rather be on a tram than a gutterliner.

It's just

that the apathy in Melbourne is legendary. And don't even get

me

started on

fare evasion. The Government and the operators have brought

that

entire

fiasco on themselves, and short of changing the entire system

to a

PAYE

operation with front entrance and center exit cars (and even

embracing that

"awful American and Canadian system" of fareboxes - which does

work even on

super heavy loading routes - and has for eons), the fare evasion

will not

stop. Melbourne had a chance to go to a PAYE farebox system

with

the Z1

and Z2 trams, let it slip a little with the Z3s, and then

absolutely blew

it with the As and Bs. One man operation cannot, and in my

opinion, will

not ever work with all those wide open doors. It has become a

sport to see

how often you can ride without ever paying a fare. I know

people

who have

not paid a fare in three years! It is remarkably easy to beat

the

system,

with just a little bit of effort and inconvenience.

The "official

line"

fare evasion rate of approx. 12% is absurd - all one has to do

is

ride a

lot and it is obvious that well over 50% of tram passengers

have no

intention of buying a ticket, and if they do have one it is

only

to be used

when inspectors get on the tram. When one does get on, there is

always a

mad dash to the validators and ticket machines. Anyway, back

to the

subject -- All the Melbourne fans have to get together and put

theirmoney

and their efforts where their mouths are. There are 200 Ws at

Newport and

Preston just waiting for a chance to get out and stretch their

legs

again.

200 extra trams would draw a whole heck of a lotof passengers

back

to public

transport. ++++++++++++ John Engleman

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