Re: Western Sydney Airport and metro progress
  TP

It would be interesting to know the bore diameter of this tunnel, compared
with the metro tunnels, which have a walkway. It reminds of all that
palaver years ago about the metro tunnels being too small for double
deckers. So they're presumably smaller, yet they have a walkway?

Tony P

On Wednesday 6 December 2023 at 14:01:58 UTC+11 Tony Galloway wrote:

> The same problem would exist with single deck stock, even narrow stock

> like U sets.

>

> The double deck cars occupy virtually the same dynamic envelope as SD

> stock, the underfloor equipment filling the space that the lower deck

> occupies on DD stock.

>

> With a circular tunnel the only way you’d get a walkway in would be to

> make the entire bore larger.

>

> Tony

>

> On 6 Dec 2023, at 12:01, TP histor...@...> wrote:

>

> I'm getting the picture that the Airport Line tunnels were not built "on

> the cheap", but because they decided that the technology had progressed

> sufficiently to build future rail tunnels using TBMs which have the

> advantage of lining the tunnels as they go and, judging by the metro lines,

> seem to be quicker than using roadheaders etc, then having to line the

> tunnels. The downside for double deckers of course is their vertical

> dimension as you say. That may have contributed to not being able to have a

> walkway inside the tunnel as the metro does, but as was mentioned above,

> they might have decided that, if work was required inside the tunnel, they

> could reroute trains onto the Illawarra surface tracks. I wasn't involved

> in the project post-approval so I have no insight into what happened

> subsequently.

>

> Tony P

>

> On Wednesday 6 December 2023 at 09:36:11 UTC+11 Tony Galloway wrote:

>

>> It still has to meet standard structure/loading gauge clearances, but the

>> round tunnel shape, of which about 15-20% is taken up by the track bed,

>> means the tunnel walls are closer to the trains where the roof meets the

>> sides of the cars, and lower where the fish bellies of the double deckers

>> are close to the track.

>>

>> With this tightness there are no safe spaces for anyone on track where

>> two trains are passing.

>>

>> Tony

>>

>> On 5 Dec 2023, at 22:44, TP histor...@...> wrote:

>>

>> If the line was tunneled with TBMs, resulting in lined tubular tunnels

>> like the Sydney metro tunnels, I imagine that this would create a tighter

>> clearance for double deck trains. All previous Sydney railway tunnels had

>> vertical walls. Am I correct?

>>

>> Tony P

>>

>> On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 at 19:49:57 UTC+11 Tony Galloway wrote:

>>

>>> The type of tunnel construction precluded having refuges, and with the

>>> alternative route through Sydenham available, diversions were the easier

>>> option if anything failed in the tunnel.

>>>

>>> Apparently.

>>>

>>> Tony

>>>

>>> > On 5 Dec 2023, at 17:14, Matthew Geier mat...@...>

>>> wrote:

>>> >

>>> > On 5/12/23 16:59, Robert Taaffe wrote:

>>> >> When the airport line was designed it was intended that it would

>>> never be maintained under traffic, only at night or during possessions.

>>> >

>>> > So the assumption was that things would only break on schedule ?

>>> >

>>> > Actually given the state of some of the Sydney Citadis already, I

>>> think that thinking is being applied to them to.

>>> >

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>>>

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