As far as the guidance system goes, failure is a possibility with the
existing mechanical linkages. I am pretty certain that the system is
designed to contain buses over a number of failure modes, not just steering
linkages failing. Eg, tyre burst.
Mark Skinner
On Tue, 26 Sept 2023, 3:35 pm Matthew Geier, matthew@...>
wrote:
> It's just a bus, with some fancy guidance technology added. The word 'bus'
> just has bad connotations, so marketing has hijacked the word 'tram'.
>
> I just looked at the Hess website - i've ridden a number of HESS products
> over the last 2 weeks, including 24.7m long monsters.
> A guess what, HESS call their electric bus range 'ligh Tram'.
>
> BTW, HESS mention Brisbane as a customer for their 24.7m long bi-artic
> monster buses. (Opps, sorry it's a lightTram® 25). Is brisbane will
> referring to that project as 'Brisbane Metro' (another marketing lie).
>
> I suspect the CRRC multi-articulated electric bus would not be safe on the
> U-Bahn tracks without significant modification - the 'bus' is guided by
> sensors following a line of some sort (either optical or a wire in the
> road) and each steering axle (there are several) controlled by electronics
> and actuators. If one of the actuators fails on a normal road, as long as
> the operator is on the ball, they can pull over and stop with only minimal
> issues. (Assuming it wasn't the lead steer actuatior that failed!) Worst
> case, they side-swipe a car. If the steering system goes wrong on the
> U-Bahn guideway, they would have a wheel over the curb and the bus stuck in
> seconds.
>
>
> On Tue, 26 Sept 2023 at 04:22, Mark Skinner emessk@...> wrote:
>
>> Like everything, that's true if you use technology inappropriately.
>>
>> What has triggered my suspicion about government technological
>> incompetence is that this technology would actually seem to fit the
>> Adelaide O-Bahn. So, why not try it somewhere that, on the face of it looks
>> like a good idea. On the O-Bahn, it's a slightly incremental technology
>> with much smaller risk.
>>
>> On Tue, 26 Sept 2023, 10:25 am Tony Galloway, arg@...> wrote:
>>
>>> That’s just like the kiddie ride trains that used to run around the
>>> Darling Harbour area in Sydney.
>>>
>>> Ok for amusement parks, not much else.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On 26 Sep 2023, at 04:48, John Wayman john.wayman@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I travelled on a trackless train today in Victoria on Gozo Island in
>>> Malta. It seems to be a well-developed technology in use all over Europe,
>>> and a similar idea to the trackless tram.
>>>
>>> Didn't Perth have trackless tram already, based on their
>>> first-generation trams?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> John Wayman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for Android https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* 'David Batho' via TramsDownUnder <
>>>tramsdownunder@...>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2023 1:32:33 PM
>>> *To:*tramsdownunder@... tramsdownunder@...>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [TramsDownUnder] Pseudo tram arrives in Perth
>>>
>>> 😂
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 25 Sep 2023, at 21:32, David Batho dbatho@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks very similar to the system used in Venice.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 25 Sep 2023, at 20:59, Tony Galloway arg@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> It must be an “audible safety device”, like unmuffled exhaust pipes on
>>> a Harley-Davidson.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On 25 Sep 2023, at 20:21, TP historyworks@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> All that effort, just to invent a trolleybus with added noise. At least
>>> "the silent death" wouldn't have befallen anybody who got in front of one
>>> of these mobile power saws.
>>>
>>> Tony P
>>>
>>> On Monday, 25 September 2023 at 20:13:10 UTC+10 Tony Galloway wrote:
>>>
>>> Well yeah, I saw this malicious expertise gutting process from the
>>> inside with NSW railways.
>>>
>>> With regard to these rubber tyred bogus bahn things one of the leading
>>> shills for them here is Professor Peter Newman, who claims to be a
>>> “sustainable development expert” (yeah right) but is easily gulled by
>>> pointless novelty gadgets inferior to what they purport to replace. Newman
>>> supported proper LR once, but now has lost the plot with this endorsement
>>> of “trackless trams”.
>>>
>>> This is the fool who advised Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore about the
>>> wonders of the “wireless” tram, which meant Sydney ended up with the patent
>>> restricted APS on George St. Then TfNSW, another repository of non-
>>> expertise, embraced inferior battery/supercap operation for Newcastle
>>> and Parramatta.
>>>
>>> As Newman doesn’t understand the superiority of fixed electrification
>>> over storage or surface contact systems it’s hardly surprising he doesn’t
>>> understand the importance of rails, or their role in differentiating a tram
>>> from a bus. Once that door was opened every tout with some
>>> solution-in-search-of-a-problem snake oil to peddle turned up to shill
>>> their dubious wares to the credulous non-experts doing the buying. Thus we
>>> have the situation where rather than the initially expensive but durable
>>> and sustainable option of trams on rails with wires is adopted it is
>>> usurped by an initially cheaper “alternative”, and by the time that fails
>>> and has to be replaced with the real thing the culprits responsible have
>>> “moved on” to where they can’t be held to account for their actions.
>>>
>>> Like here, where another solution-in-search-of-a-problem became the
>>> problem :
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXAvuw4wX48&ab_channel=ErebosSan
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On 25 Sep 2023, at 16:49, Mark Skinner eme...@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sort of yes. However, governments have degraded their expertise so much
>>> that they have zero in house expertise in reality, especially when dealing
>>> with anything new. So, previously, the public, through taxes, paid for
>>> in-house knowledge of transport technology. Now, that in-house knowledge no
>>> longer exists. The specialists were "let go". So now, up comes something
>>> new. It sounds plausible, and it is a bus, so it IS plausible, so how to
>>> evaluate it? Previously, ask the in-house experts. Now, with no in-house
>>> expertise, a trial is also reasonable. So, who should pay? Why not the
>>> governments that shoved expertise out the door, often contemptuously? So,
>>> while yeah, this is over the top, it's the consequence of decisions made by
>>> governments and endorsed by taxpayers in voting for those governments
>>> repeatedly.
>>>
>>> Mark Skinner
>>>
>>> On Mon, 25 Sept 2023, 12:36 pm Tony Galloway, a...@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Grifters are gunna grift….
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On 24 Sep 2023, at 19:30, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, the City of Stirling has received funding from the Federal govt for
>>> a business case and trial.
>>>
>>> Tony P
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 24 September 2023 at 17:32:12 UTC+10 Matthew Geier wrote:
>>>
>>> This is the same vehicle the promo pictures show the body swinging into
>>> the adjacent traffic lane as it 'crosses over'?
>>>
>>> Over the last few days I rode the 'old style' trackless tram in two
>>> different Swiss cities - Hess biarticulated trolley buses. Also equipped
>>> with a fair capacity battery, if they lose the poles, they just keep going
>>> to the next location that has 'pole locator hats' on the overhead. (Which
>>> may be the terminal loop).
>>> They were also using them on non-electrified routes.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Sept 2023 at 08:01, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> A demonstration "trackless tram" from China has arrived in Perth for
>>> testing.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.stirling.wa.gov.au/your-city/news/2023/september-%281%29/trackless-tram-arrives-in-stirling
>>>
>>> Tony P
>>>
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