Brisbane Buses drivers are represented by the RTBU, as are, I believe,
Metro Tasmania drivers. Transport Canberra drivers are represented by the
TWU. In Europe and elsewhere in the world, transit operated by the City
Government is pretty-much equivalent to a State government here. Brisbane
is the only city-run operation in Australia.
Tony P
On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 21:46:31 UTC+10 Andrew Highriser wrote:
> City owned is quite different to government owned, where train and tram
> staff are under the Rail, Tram and Bus Union, but then I know how anti
> union you are.
>
> I doubt there is a shortage anywhere in Australia to be a government
> employed public transport rail driver.
>
> As I said, drivers who changed from being tram drivers to bus drivers
> preferred bus driving but came back to being tram drivers. To mention
> steering is disingenuous. Believe me, Melbourne tram drivers still deal and
> interact with passengers, all day every day.
>
> Andrew.
>
> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023 at 20:32, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>
>> The thing is that are also severe driver shortages in city or
>> government-owned operations around Australia and the world (and there are
>> heaps of them still), so that theory doesn't stand up at all.
>>
>> I suspect tram driving is a more attractive occupation, in spite of still
>> having split shifts and other features in common with bus operation.
>> Perhaps not having to steer, nor deal with passengers wins them over.
>>
>> Tony P
>>
>> On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 20:04:46 UTC+10 Andrew Highriser wrote:
>>
>>> In Melbourne there are long waiting lists to be employed as a tram or
>>> train driver. I don't think there would be a long list of people wanting to
>>> be bus drivers. I know of a couple of tram drivers who went on to become
>>> bus drivers for government owned services and when the bus operation was
>>> put into the hands of private companies, they came back to drive trams, yet
>>> both, no more than two, who I knew said they preferred bus driving to tram
>>> driving.
>>>
>>> So what is the attraction to government owned and operated public
>>> transport? It is reasonable wages and decent working conditions. No matter
>>> how much money private operators might offer and what cash incentives there
>>> are, at the end of the day decent working conditions count the most.
>>> Private companies are there to make profits and better working conditions
>>> cost them profits. The world wide shortage of truck and bus drivers is
>>> probably down to working conditions too.
>>>
>>> Some of the horror stories I've heard about conditions for Sydney bus
>>> drivers are just appalling.
>>>
>>> Andrew.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023 at 19:25, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Enclosed driver's cabs are becoming widespread around the world but, as
>>>> for trams and trains, they have to come with prepaid or tap-on fares and
>>>> removal of involvement of the driver with any revenue function. All door
>>>> boarding is also progressively reducing the interaction of drivers with
>>>> passengers, though the drivers' unions are opposed to all door boarding in
>>>> NSW, but not in other states and territories.
>>>>
>>>> It's taking a long time for the penny to drop among some people that
>>>> the shortage of professional heavy vehicle drivers in general is an
>>>> Australia-wide and world-wide issue. This article summarising some of the
>>>> issues is about truck drivers but the problem includes bus drivers:
>>>>
>>>> https://asstra.com/press-centre/news/2023/3/global-driver-shortage/
>>>>
>>>> One can find many other news items on the subject, including
>>>> highlighting the most fundamental issue that more older drivers are
>>>> retiring from the industry than there are young drivers entering it, such
>>>> as:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://czechdaily.cz/czech-republic-faces-severe-shortage-of-25000-professional-drivers/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/driver-shortage-is-deviating-for-the-eu-economy-warn-business-and-politicians
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.npr.org/2023/08/25/1195858259/why-are-so-many-school-districts-struggling-to-find-good-bus-drivers
>>>>
>>>> And none of our remaining government bus operations are immune, so it's
>>>> not "privatisation":
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-21/bus-cancellations-driver-shortages-brisbane/102245434
>>>>
>>>> It's a huge problem for heavy road vehicles because full automation,
>>>> which eliminates the issue in a growing number of commuter railways and
>>>> will come to trams during this decade, is a way off. Railways are fortunate:
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki2.org/en/List_of_driver-less_train_systems
>>>>
>>>> Tony P
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 18:21:21 UTC+10 Andrew Highriser wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems so logical to give proper protection to bus drivers and would
>>>>> hardly be expensive. Who can forget this horrific incident,
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-28/driver-dies-after-bus-catches-fire-in-brisbane/7974172 It
>>>>> would have been so simple to prevent by having the driver isolated in a
>>>>> secure driver cabin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023 at 15:38, Mark Skinner eme...@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's got me beat is that buses in Australia, with few exceptions,
>>>>>> have extremely poor driver protection as might be found in Europe. Unless I
>>>>>> was a big bloke, I wouldn't touch commuter bus driving after hours for
>>>>>> double that amount. It's too dangerous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If, as they say, it's hard to get people doing the job, surely a cab
>>>>>> enclosure would help, and relatively inexpensively?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Skinner
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023, 2:08 pm TP, histor...@...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can't read it, but I'm guessing it's bus driving. The same problem
>>>>>>> in Europe, labour shortage and lots of incentives, but they still can't get
>>>>>>> them. The problem extends beyond bus drivers to heavy vehicle drivers
>>>>>>> generally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.iru.org/news-resources/newsroom/global-driver-shortages-2022-year-review
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not so obvious with tram drivers as their numbers are tiny
>>>>>>> compared to road vehicle drivers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 13:54:02 UTC+10 Greg Sutherland
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/it-s-a-100-000-job-but-nobody-wants-it-and-it-s-making-you-late-a-lot-20230907-p5e2yg.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>> .
>>
>