The thing is that are also severe driver shortages in city or
government-owned operations around Australia and the world (and there are
heaps of them still), so that theory doesn't stand up at all.
I suspect tram driving is a more attractive occupation, in spite of still
having split shifts and other features in common with bus operation.
Perhaps not having to steer, nor deal with passengers wins them over.
Tony P
On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 20:04:46 UTC+10 Andrew Highriser wrote:
> In Melbourne there are long waiting lists to be employed as a tram or
> train driver. I don't think there would be a long list of people wanting to
> be bus drivers. I know of a couple of tram drivers who went on to become
> bus drivers for government owned services and when the bus operation was
> put into the hands of private companies, they came back to drive trams, yet
> both, no more than two, who I knew said they preferred bus driving to tram
> driving.
>
> So what is the attraction to government owned and operated public
> transport? It is reasonable wages and decent working conditions. No matter
> how much money private operators might offer and what cash incentives there
> are, at the end of the day decent working conditions count the most.
> Private companies are there to make profits and better working conditions
> cost them profits. The world wide shortage of truck and bus drivers is
> probably down to working conditions too.
>
> Some of the horror stories I've heard about conditions for Sydney bus
> drivers are just appalling.
>
> Andrew.
>
>
> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023 at 19:25, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>
>> Enclosed driver's cabs are becoming widespread around the world but, as
>> for trams and trains, they have to come with prepaid or tap-on fares and
>> removal of involvement of the driver with any revenue function. All door
>> boarding is also progressively reducing the interaction of drivers with
>> passengers, though the drivers' unions are opposed to all door boarding in
>> NSW, but not in other states and territories.
>>
>> It's taking a long time for the penny to drop among some people that the
>> shortage of professional heavy vehicle drivers in general is an
>> Australia-wide and world-wide issue. This article summarising some of the
>> issues is about truck drivers but the problem includes bus drivers:
>>
>> https://asstra.com/press-centre/news/2023/3/global-driver-shortage/
>>
>> One can find many other news items on the subject, including highlighting
>> the most fundamental issue that more older drivers are retiring from the
>> industry than there are young drivers entering it, such as:
>>
>>
>> https://czechdaily.cz/czech-republic-faces-severe-shortage-of-25000-professional-drivers/
>>
>>
>> https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/driver-shortage-is-deviating-for-the-eu-economy-warn-business-and-politicians
>>
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2023/08/25/1195858259/why-are-so-many-school-districts-struggling-to-find-good-bus-drivers
>>
>> And none of our remaining government bus operations are immune, so it's
>> not "privatisation":
>>
>>
>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-21/bus-cancellations-driver-shortages-brisbane/102245434
>>
>> It's a huge problem for heavy road vehicles because full automation,
>> which eliminates the issue in a growing number of commuter railways and
>> will come to trams during this decade, is a way off. Railways are fortunate:
>>
>> https://wiki2.org/en/List_of_driver-less_train_systems
>>
>> Tony P
>>
>> On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 18:21:21 UTC+10 Andrew Highriser wrote:
>>
>>> It seems so logical to give proper protection to bus drivers and would
>>> hardly be expensive. Who can forget this horrific incident,
>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-28/driver-dies-after-bus-catches-fire-in-brisbane/7974172 It
>>> would have been so simple to prevent by having the driver isolated in a
>>> secure driver cabin.
>>>
>>> Andrew.
>>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023 at 15:38, Mark Skinner eme...@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's got me beat is that buses in Australia, with few exceptions,
>>>> have extremely poor driver protection as might be found in Europe. Unless I
>>>> was a big bloke, I wouldn't touch commuter bus driving after hours for
>>>> double that amount. It's too dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> If, as they say, it's hard to get people doing the job, surely a cab
>>>> enclosure would help, and relatively inexpensively?
>>>>
>>>> Mark Skinner
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 11 Sept 2023, 2:08 pm TP, histor...@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can't read it, but I'm guessing it's bus driving. The same problem in
>>>>> Europe, labour shortage and lots of incentives, but they still can't get
>>>>> them. The problem extends beyond bus drivers to heavy vehicle drivers
>>>>> generally.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.iru.org/news-resources/newsroom/global-driver-shortages-2022-year-review
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not so obvious with tram drivers as their numbers are tiny
>>>>> compared to road vehicle drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony P
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, 11 September 2023 at 13:54:02 UTC+10 Greg Sutherland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/it-s-a-100-000-job-but-nobody-wants-it-and-it-s-making-you-late-a-lot-20230907-p5e2yg.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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