Further explanation from the Minister and Metro CEO Regan, after the 8
minute mark, obviously alluding to that Herald article:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUev4LJDDLo
The optics of having Peter Regan at the Central Station reconstruction
opening and not somebody from Sydney Trains suggest a story. It seems that
Haylen, having been fully briefed since being elected, is fully on board
with the metro. Good that it's now clearly bipartisan.
Tony P
On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 10:46:42 UTC+10 Tony Galloway wrote:
> For some reason you have to click on reply to read this :
>
> On 30 May 2023, at 10:26, Tony Galloway a...@...> wrote:
>
>
> Not everyone buys the ideological bullshit about these bogus sewer trains
> driving unsustainable overdevelopment.
>
> Not everyone buys the dystopian Triguboff “vision” of Sydney as a treeless
> concrete high rise hellhole from the coast to the mountains - “if people
> want to see a tree, they can go to Katoomba”.
>
> Triguboff's own words, supposedly spoken in “jest”. Yeah right.
>
> Of course, they will be accused of “not knowing what they are talking
> about”, but that has never stopped others blathering about things they know
> nothing about, don’t care about, and have no understanding of - like the
> environment and sustainability.
>
> Tony
>
>
> - Letters https://www.smh.com.au/topic/smh-letters-1r7
>
> Why does Sydney have three incompatible train systems?
> MAY 29, 2023
> Save
>
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> 22
>
> The dysfunction and mismanagement of the previous NSW government’s
> transport minister and department continues to give (“Lines too different
> to share trains https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5d78h”,
> May 29). From ferries not fitting under bridges to not coping with
> sea-swells, trains with structural cracks and safety issues delaying use
> for three years and cost and delivery overruns, we now have three metro
> lines in one city that are incompatible with each other. Who was in charge
> – the Joker? It would be funny if it wasn’t real. Utopia scriptwriters,
> take note. Rowan Godwin, Rozelle
> [image: Commuters at a Sydney train station.]
> Commuters at a Sydney train station. CREDIT: PHOTO: KATE GERAGHTY
>
> Upgrades to trains, power and signalling on the Sydney trains network also
> creates incompatibilities between trains and tracks. A sensible government
> and network operator plots an upgrade path that prioritises commonality for
> maximum service at lowest cost. A major mistake of the previous government
> is dedicated airport trains and lines. The best airport rail service is a
> metropolitan rail network that allows easy access to airports via every
> combination of rail lines.
>
> The thing the people of NSW must protect, that the industry may not, is
> the relationship between trains, platforms and rail corridors that puts our
> Waratahs among the world’s best commuter trains. Within these dimensions,
> we can still do better for people with shopping and baggage, and for faster
> entry and exit at the busiest stations. Peter Egan, Mosman
>
> Only in Australia could there be a decision so manifestly stupid as the
> one revealed in today’s story. The sheer lunacy of building three new
> incredibly expensive projects to different specifications defies any logic.
> And then we learn the carriages on the Western Sydney Airport line are too
> wide for the Metro West line, meaning passengers will need to change trains
> at St Marys. I simply have no words to express my anger at this stupidity. Ross
> Corrigan, Redfern
>
> Transport and planning consultant Alex Gooding says in the story that “we
> are building a system from the ground up, but the previous government
> appeared to have deliberately designed a range of incompatible features,
> which makes no sense”. I can only assume it was incompetence or political
> convenience. Or both? Paul Reid, Campsie
>
> More news of another transport project in Sydney which is incompatible
> with all previous transport projects. When it came to building public
> transport infrastructure, no one could ever accuse the former Coalition
> government of seeing the big picture. Doug Walker, Baulkham Hills
> Advertisement
>
> Alex Gooding clearly explains the lack of technical standardisation and
> thus the interoperability problems in the new Sydney metro lines. Limiting
> all subsequent metro lines to the same technical specifications as the
> original contract may have been anti-competitive, but it could have helped.
> Sadly, the current metro technical shemozzle is a result of the previous
> state government’s urge to dis-integrate and privatise separate parts of
> our public transport system. Evan Bailey, Glebe
>
> After so many years of outsourcing, privatising and avoiding pesky unions,
> the Coalition has left NSW with a system that defies logic. Transport
> Minister Jo Haylen believes transport should work for passengers: well,
> that will be a first. I wish her luck. Where does she begin? Nola Tucker,
> Kiama
>
> The NSW Labor government has inherited the poorly designed Metro mess. I
> suppose there are water-tight contracts and potentially large financial
> penalties if the government tries to fix the mess. I hope it will be a
> constant reminder of what not to do in the future. Denis Goodwin, Dee Why
>
> On 29 May 2023, at 13:02, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>
> As I mentioned on the bus forum Brian, the station boxes are excavated to
> more than 8 car train length, but at the opening stage the platforms will
> be for 4 cars. At the 2 minute headways that the metro is capable of, four
> car metro trains can move about 22,500 passengers per hour per direction.
> This is almost as many as the busiest peak service that the suburban system
> is capable of (the lower North Shore) which can move about 24,000 pphpd.
>
> Tony P
>
> On Monday, 29 May 2023 at 12:44:26 UTC+10bblun...@... wrote:
>
>> I was concerned to read that the WSA Metro was going to be restricted to
>> 4-car trains.
>>
>> Is this going to impede future growth on a 50 km route?
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Monday, 29 May 2023 at 12:16:11 pm AEST, TP <
>>histor...@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> There will be no need for rolling stock transfers between lines. They're
>> all going to grow in patronage, so each will get additional new stock as it
>> grows. No line will be in a position to give up stock.
>>
>> The Western Sydney (Airport) Metro is going to be over 50 km long when
>> it's completed through to Schofields and Macarthur. That's not short!
>>
>> Yes, the suburban system will be able to roll out automation as the ETCS
>> is expanded, but the RTBU (which is represented on the Administrative
>> Committee of the NSW ALP) will ensure that there's still a driver at the
>> front, even though he'll only be reading a book during the journey, and
>> guards to stick their heads out at the back - plus the Fat Controller on
>> the station to deploy the accessible ramp. And thus this 19th century crock
>> will reverse into the future.
>>
>> Tony P
>>
>> On Monday, 29 May 2023 at 11:03:16 UTC+10 Matthew Geier wrote:
>>
>> There is a difference between operating lines independently to
>> deliberately making them technically incompatible so that even things
>> like rolling stock transfers to balance changing demands are impossible.
>>
>> The only good thing is that maybe these other two lines will get an
>> automation that can properly drive the trains unlike the 'bang-bang'
>> controller Alstom has on the NW metro.
>>
>> I still can't see the justification for making the airport metro 25kv
>> AC. Short route, short trains. The route is sufficiently short that
>> having 3 phase breaks to balance the load will be an issue, so they may
>> have to go to 'converter' substations that take 3 phase from the
>> distribution network, turn it into DC and then into single phase AC for
>> the overhead. Then each train has to take the single phase AC, step it
>> down, turn it into DC and then feed it into a VVVF converter to make 3
>> phase for the train motors.
>>
>> Will the extra complexity offset the 'transmission efficiency' of the
>> 25kv OCS ?
>>
>> I'm waiting for some one to realize that automation could be applied to
>> the double-deck stock too. Not to many more years till some one realizes
>> the ETCS upgrade for Sydney trains is a precursor to GoA4 on the
>> 'conventional' network. The union will not be impressed, but by blocking
>> DOO they have made the case for automation stronger.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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