Re: Light rail fails in the hour of need

There is also a cross over just south of Lang Rd which could be used to reverse trams, but then congestion at Chalmers St could be a problem, even with 3 platforms capable of terminating services?

On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 11:25:26 am AEDT, Tony Galloway arg@...> wrote:

The Moore Park stop has a scissors crossover at the city end as well as the centre stub at the outer end, so no need to run all trams into the stub to reverse if running a short working to there. The layout is effectively the same as at Bondi Jct station which uses both the x-over and the stub to reverse trains depending on traffic levels while the outer tracks are used to stable trains beyond the platforms till needed. These parked trains would be the trams at Moore Park continuing to Kingsford and Randwick. They could apply how Bondi Jct works to get more out of what they have there.
While a loop would be better for all the well known reasons, I can imagine, given the ridiculous overbuilt track used, the bean counters would have had a sook about the cost of it, and probably there was some whining about the impact on car parking or something. But the way they use what they have there (seven power operated, remotely controlled turnouts wouldn’t have been cheap either) shows an underlying incompetence that is inexcusable.
The thinking behind the way TfNSW does stuff remains a mystery to me, they always default to “when in doubt, get the buses out”.

On 23 Jan 2023, at 10:42, TP historyworks@...> wrote:
Considering the less than 2 km distance between Moore Park and Central, there was no problem with the number of six artics that would have filled up the available road doing a continuous loop. The event buses actually have a dedicated loop terminus at Moore Park on the site of the old tramway loops and where a loop should have been built for CSELR event trams! The issue is that the buses were supposed to supplement the trams, not do the whole job for them! The other thing is that the bus loop is out of sight of the tram stop, so most people would have gone to the tram stop and waited there in the rain, unaware that there was a duplicate bus service from a well-sheltered stop nearby. Poor design and poor management. I guess next time we'll see everybody who learned from experience heading for the bus terminus and ignoring the tram.

The other issue is that, in spite of knowing that there would be 30,000 people at the venue, TfNSW didn't consider it necessary to authorise additional LX trams to infill between the regular trams. Even in the event of the points failure, I believe that was further upstream, so the LX trams would have been able to continue operating even if the regular route trams were held up.

As an aside, I do wonder how they go with running LX trams in between the regulars at a combined 2 minute headway, considering the shunting required at the event stops. Do they really manage to trundle one of those 67 metre trams into a siding, get the driver to waddle the distance to the other end (on the ground, considering the tram is a coupled set), go through the startup procedures and run back into the platform two minutes before the next regular tram arrives? This is why, in the early planning, in lieu of loops, we recommended triple platforms at Circular Quay and Central, while others and I urged for loops at Moore Park and Randwick Racecourse. The railway types, in their wisdom, thought that shunting stubs would be OK at the two venues. Unfortunately, I don't live there to observe how this goes in practice, but the way the trams trundle around generally, I can't imagine it happening with the precision of a Swiss watch. Perhaps this is why TfNSW doesn't encourage the use of extra event trams - they've learnt that the operation has a good chance of stumbling over itself.
On a side note, the reason for the third platform at Circular Quay was to provide for a future two-minute headway operation. The third platform should be permanently empty under the current 4 minute service, but I hear reports that there are sometimes three trams parked there. Now how would this happen I wonder? (Guessing the answer.)

Tony P(who is absolutely not a fan of stubbed tram systems)

On Monday, 23 January 2023 at 08:52:54 UTC+11gregsut...@... wrote:

Looks like we have not heard the end of this fiasco.

There was a par on today's ABC Sydney's 7;00 am new bulletin.

The 'flooded points' and the associated bus failure (only 6 artics) were mentioned.


On 21/01/2023 2:37 pm, Mark Skinner wrote:

It's almost as if, from start to finish with light rail, that TfNSW has sabotaged the government. The exorbitant cost and outrageous project time in which almost every decision cost more or degraded performance is now compounded by this series of events. I do accept that big projects will always have ups and downs. However,  when a project is consistently underperforming is not the time for shrugging shoulders and bulling ahead.
Of course, one of the reasons for representative government is to curtail out-of-control feral bureaucracy. So, obviously the Government has to take responsibility too. A few top heads rolling in 2017 AND selection of competent replacements could have changed history. 

Mark Skinner 

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, 11:13 am TP, histor...@...> wrote:


At that time of night, regular route trams are passing through Moore Park every five minutes, giving a capacity of about 5,400 persons per hour per direction. Insertion of LX trams in between should double that capacity, assuming they can undertake the operation with Swiss watch-like discipline. Addition of the five artic buses should provide another 1,000-1,500 pphpd on top of that, let's say about 12,000 pphpd. Then the trams fell over, leaving the artics to do the job. The stadium crowd size was 30,000. The balance is supposed to be picked up by private cars and walking. Not brilliant, considering the capacity of the former tram system to move 60,000 per hour at that venue.
In Sydney, Olympic Park will be perfect once the metro opens through there. SUburban event trains manage until then. Other states seem to do a lot better than Moore Park. Perth's new Optus Stadium has been designed to be served by public transport only and trains and buses can lift an entire capacity crowd of 60,000 on their own.
Tony P

On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 21:35:46 UTC+11 TP wrote:

After the trams finished, Moore Park events were served by buses and there were never enough of them. Exiting the venue onto an abundance of trams that swallowed the crowds up was replaced by waiting for occasional buses and then running frantically to get on one in case it was the only one (you never knew in those days before transport apps on phones). Illustrated in the attached Fairfax photo (which I've titled "Fall of the Roman Empire")..
At the Elton Johns concert, the trams barely did the job of that single bus. There were six artic buses supplied for the event by Transit systems and they were the lifesavers.
Tony P

On Friday, 20 January 2023 at 19:09:35 UTC+11gol8...@... wrote:

I think that I see where you gents are going wrong. Melbourne has those funny old trams whereas Sydney has a "Modern light fail, er, rail"system.

-----Original Message-----
From:tramsdo...@... [] On Behalf Of Matthew Geier
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2023 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Light rail fails in the hour of need

On 20/1/23 15:52, Mark Skinner wrote:
> So...what happens if a driver selects the wrong road by mistake?
> Surely, they can get out and change the points manually?
In Sydney drivers do not select the points, the 'traffic computer'
(AVLS) does. It also controls the destination screens.

If the AVLS is down or not communicating with the master control
computer, the OCC will direct the drivers to select points using the
direction selection buttons on the console. A selector switch to be
turned from auto to manual before those buttons work. The locations of
the beacons are marked track side.

Basically it appears the function of an LRV driver to read the AVLS
screen and follow it's directions. The only autonomy is 'don't run over
pedestrians'. Every thing else is regulated by computers.

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