Heeeeeere’s Matty!!!!!
Tony
> On 19 Aug 2022, at 07:12, TP historyworks@...> wrote:
>
> A correction - actually 1,696 commuter rail carriages have been ordered and built or in progress in NSW in the last decade. I under-counted the Waratahs by about 120. That's far more than ordered for the rest of Australia's cities combined during the last decade, reminiscent of the heyday of the Sydney tramways when they were bigger in some respects than all other Australian systems combined. Nobody here has proposed a solution to the dilemma of how can you procure so many vehicles in a short time by building them locally when they're cheaper and you can get more for the budget from overseas and when Australia simply doesn't any longer have the manufacturing capacity to build so many within a short timeframe. There isn't a short-term answer.
>
> Just to show that these issues cross political boundaries and that not all state Liberal Partys are the same, here's a Liberal fool putting his foot in it in Victoria:
>
> https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/politics/melbournes-infrastructure-mistakes-could-be-repeated/news-story/8e855c784d4ff128b50dee1b506846a6 https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/politics/melbournes-infrastructure-mistakes-could-be-repeated/news-story/8e855c784d4ff128b50dee1b506846a6
>
> Tony P
> in a state that actually achieves big results
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 18 August 2022 at 14:22:35 UTC+10 TP wrote:
> I did make the qualification in my post that, of the imported orders, some have varying degrees of local "finishing" work in them. In NSW, like the HCMT, this applies to the Waratah trains and the ferries. I've listed them as imported because the substantial structural build has been overseas. As you know, Downer has picked up most of the rump of the Australian train manufacturing industry, including at Newcastle and Maryborough, and, like the HCMT, has finished, to varying degrees, the NSW Waratahs and Queensland NGRs locally. There's a pattern here - local company, body and running gear fabrication overseas, completion works locally. (An unpleasant difference in Victoria was that CRRC was brought in as partner rather than a subcontractor, but hopefully that will pass into history.) I'm well aware that the Vlocitys and Extraps are built locally, much credit in that. But look at the relatively low volumes that have been produced (trams too), that's my point.
>
> Anyway, I hope that once catch-ups are complete, normal lifecycle rollovers can be more localised. NSW is most of the way through its catchup, Victoria is still in early stages and the cost of manufacture relative to available budgets has a lot to do with that. When NSW can get its trams for half the price of Victoria's, it does help moving forward much faster on getting the fleet you need. (Leaving aside the issue of Melbourne getting proper trams while in NSW we get joke 19th century tech!)
>
> Tony P
>
> On Thursday, 18 August 2022 at 13:53:32 UTC+10 Mal Rowe wrote:
> On 18/08/2022 13:10, TP wrote:
> > I suspect that Victoria with the HCMT and Queensland with the NGR
> > went overseas because they knew that there there was no way they could
> > get the product in the volume and timescale by sourcing locally - and
> > perhaps it was cost too.
>
> The HCMT in Victoria is around 60% local build.
>
> See:
> https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/high-capacity-metro-trains https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/high-capacity-metro-trains
>
>
> Shells arrive from China and are fitted with components manufactured in
> Victoria and overseas - not just in China.
>
> It's not a lot different to earlier times for trams when traction
> equipment was imported and local bodies fitted.
>
> Victoria has two active train/tram builders - Alstom (trading as
> Bombardier) and Downer.
>
> Unlike NSW, we do build rolling stock here!
>
> Mal Rowe
>
>
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