Re: Track issues in Melbourne
  Mark Skinner

He was in 2019. I ate there watching DPP laying new BKK panels on asphalt
base there. So, I want to go back and have a look to see how it is standing
up.

http://www.skippie.cz/

On Sat, 21 May 2022, 6:16 pm TP, historyworks@...> wrote:

> Skippie is still operating after ten years?

>

> http://skippie.cz/index.htm

>

> I see that Miroslav now has a dining pod out on the street, about a pie's

> width from passing trams. You can't get much closer than that:

>

>

> https://www.google.com.au/maps/@49.7466927,13.3743197,3a,75y,242.73h,86.87t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMdqbu1faDouhaNHVazWaXA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DMdqbu1faDouhaNHVazWaXA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.35062%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

>

> The BKV panels seem to have a stone paving imprint on them? I don't recall

> noticing that before, usually just smooth concrete. Specially done for the

> historic precinct I guess?

>

> I can see when I visit Fremantle's west end why it reminds me of Plzen.

>

> The street, Prešovská, is a popular location for tram photography. Here is

> a new Skoda 40T tram passing the pie shop heading east on line 1:

>

> https://i1.wp.com/www.cysnews-new.cz/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/tram-pl.jpg

>

> The 40T is a 30 metre tram of the same configuration as the Melbourne E

> class. 22 are being purchased for PMDP Plzen. Plzen (population 170,000) is

> disposing of its smaller trams in favour of 30 metre trams to meet demand -

> at the same time as some other city (population 5 million) is downsizing to

> 24 metre trams (to meet demand?). Funny old world, the world of trams.

>

> Tony P

>

> On Saturday, 21 May 2022 at 12:12:19 UTC+10eme...@... wrote:

>

>> The BKV panels are a good idea, wrongly used. They are extremely cheap

>> and quick to install. Excellent for temporary track relocations such as

>> round the Anzac Station under construction. Similarly, for very light

>> traffic where other methods would make trams uneconomic. However, when

>> their use was extended to busy lines, a life of ten years seemed to be the

>> maximum...but cheap. Then, of course, it was cheaper to just let them get

>> worse and worse by slowing the service down. Various operators in Czech

>> Republic are persevering with them in low usage lines, but with sturdier

>> bases.

>>

>> I'm interested to see how these are standing up. One such section is

>> outside the Skippy Australian Pie Shop in Plzeň. So, on my next visit I

>> shall observe while munching a pie.

>>

>> Mark Skinner

>>

>> On Sat, 21 May 2022, 9:11 am Matthew Geier, mat...@...>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> If we are talking asphalt roads , probably won't matter how well you

>>> pack that thin layer of fill, it will tend to 'flow' under load. The

>>> tram rails probably act to constrain where the road vehicle's wheels go

>>> - they have issues like this on the Sydney Harbour Bridge on the Cahill

>>> lanes (ex railway/tramway) as they are quite narrow and have a high

>>> amount of bus traffic. With the buses constrained to run in the 'same'

>>> path due to the narrow lanes the asphalt ruts quite rapidly.

>>>

>>> I've also seen this elsewhere where the lanes are narrow and constrained

>>> - and particularly on those guided rubber tired tram things. They rather

>>> rapidly rut their guideway unless it's concrete, and the first Translohr

>>> has noticeable wear on its concrete sections!. I think the Paris

>>> Translohr lines are all concrete on the running surface.

>>>

>>> Those pre-fab track panels they used in Eastern Europe have proven to be

>>> problematic over time - unless the bed those panels are placed on is

>>> very well compacted (and often wasn't) the panels tend to rock with the

>>> road traffic and eventually break the rails.

>>>

>>>

>>> On 20/5/22 21:47, Dudley Horscroft wrote:

>>> > Perhaps it might be better in these high traffic areas to ensure that

>>> > the concrete to top of sleeper height is completely level, then insert

>>> > between the rails long concrete panels linked by some sort of mastic -

>>> > tar or rubber? Similar to the panels used in Budapest but without the

>>> > fixings for the rails, or the panels used in somewhere in the Czech

>>> > republic - Tony knows where and can probably find the advertising

>>> > material on these.

>>> >

>>> > Regards

>>> >

>>> > Dudley

>>> >

>>> > On 20/05/2022 9:36 pm, David Batho wrote:

>>> >> Thank you, all, for some recondite observations.

>>> >>

>>> >> David

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>> On 11 May 2022, at 11:14 am, Mal Rowe mal....@...> wrote:

>>> >>>

>>> >>> On 08/05/2022 13:10, Mal Rowe wrote:

>>> >>>> The strength and finished surface are starting to show some

>>> problems.

>>> >>>>

>>> >>> As promised, I went out to get some pics of some problems with some

>>> >>> of Melbourne's tramways renewed using the current technique.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> The technique involves concrete to sleeper height, then crushed

>>> >>> rock/concrete fill to just below rail height and topping off with

>>> >>> bitumen.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> It mostly works well, but there are at least a couple of places

>>> >>> where problems with the road surface have emerged.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> The two attached pics show Bridge Rd Richmond where there is very

>>> >>> heavy road traffic. The use of "Vienna stops" in this location

>>> >>> concentrates the motor traffic on the tramway section of the road.

>>> >>> Most motorists avoid going up and over the kerbside lane. It looks

>>> >>> like the crushed rock has not been stable enough and the bitumen

>>> >>> surface is breaking up. The tramway is fine - just the road surface

>>> >>> is failing.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> The other location I have noticed problems is in Dawson St

>>> >>> Brunswick. The section of roadway outside the tram rails is quite

>>> >>> uneven - driving along it in a car one notices 'long period

>>> >>> corrugations' that give a bumpy ride.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Getting the crushed fill to pack down is tricky - the small roller

>>> >>> that is used (see: https://tdu.to/i/80550 ) is probably not able to

>>> >>> do the job properly.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Mal Rowe - grateful to Warren Doubleday for the 'heads up' on Bridge

>>> >>> Rd.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> --

>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

>>> >>> Groups "TramsDownUnder" group.

>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

>>> >>> send an email totramsdownunde...@....

>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit

>>> >>>

>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/941d6aa4-3f90-637d-9aec-a5309d9d2b7a%40gmail.com

>>> .

>>> >>> <2096_BridgeRd_10May2022.JPG><Damage-BridgeRd_10May2022.JPG>

>>> >

>>>

>>> --

>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

>>> Groups "TramsDownUnder" group.

>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

>>> an email totramsdownunde...@....

>>>

>> To view this discussion on the web visit

>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/f28e7812-995b-acb0-af20-b50941d720d6%40sleeper.apana.org.au

>>> .

>>>

>> --

> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

> "TramsDownUnder" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> email totramsdownunder+unsubscribe@....

> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/f60d4e6f-3f6d-4098-83ce-b26c93355092n%40googlegroups.com

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/f60d4e6f-3f6d-4098-83ce-b26c93355092n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

> .

>