Re: Track issues in Melbourne
  TP

Skippie is still operating after ten years?

http://skippie.cz/index.htm

I see that Miroslav now has a dining pod out on the street, about a pie's
width from passing trams. You can't get much closer than that:

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@49.7466927,13.3743197,3a,75y,242.73h,86.87t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMdqbu1faDouhaNHVazWaXA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DMdqbu1faDouhaNHVazWaXA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.35062%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

The BKV panels seem to have a stone paving imprint on them? I don't recall
noticing that before, usually just smooth concrete. Specially done for the
historic precinct I guess?

I can see when I visit Fremantle's west end why it reminds me of Plzen.

The street, Prešovská, is a popular location for tram photography. Here is
a new Skoda 40T tram passing the pie shop heading east on line 1:

https://i1.wp.com/www.cysnews-new.cz/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/tram-pl.jpg

The 40T is a 30 metre tram of the same configuration as the Melbourne E
class. 22 are being purchased for PMDP Plzen. Plzen (population 170,000) is
disposing of its smaller trams in favour of 30 metre trams to meet demand -
at the same time as some other city (population 5 million) is downsizing to
24 metre trams (to meet demand?). Funny old world, the world of trams.

Tony P

On Saturday, 21 May 2022 at 12:12:19 UTC+10eme...@... wrote:

> The BKV panels are a good idea, wrongly used. They are extremely cheap

> and quick to install. Excellent for temporary track relocations such as

> round the Anzac Station under construction. Similarly, for very light

> traffic where other methods would make trams uneconomic. However, when

> their use was extended to busy lines, a life of ten years seemed to be the

> maximum...but cheap. Then, of course, it was cheaper to just let them get

> worse and worse by slowing the service down. Various operators in Czech

> Republic are persevering with them in low usage lines, but with sturdier

> bases.

>

> I'm interested to see how these are standing up. One such section is

> outside the Skippy Australian Pie Shop in Plzeň. So, on my next visit I

> shall observe while munching a pie.

>

> Mark Skinner

>

> On Sat, 21 May 2022, 9:11 am Matthew Geier, mat...@...>

> wrote:

>

>> If we are talking asphalt roads , probably won't matter how well you

>> pack that thin layer of fill, it will tend to 'flow' under load. The

>> tram rails probably act to constrain where the road vehicle's wheels go

>> - they have issues like this on the Sydney Harbour Bridge on the Cahill

>> lanes (ex railway/tramway) as they are quite narrow and have a high

>> amount of bus traffic. With the buses constrained to run in the 'same'

>> path due to the narrow lanes the asphalt ruts quite rapidly.

>>

>> I've also seen this elsewhere where the lanes are narrow and constrained

>> - and particularly on those guided rubber tired tram things. They rather

>> rapidly rut their guideway unless it's concrete, and the first Translohr

>> has noticeable wear on its concrete sections!. I think the Paris

>> Translohr lines are all concrete on the running surface.

>>

>> Those pre-fab track panels they used in Eastern Europe have proven to be

>> problematic over time - unless the bed those panels are placed on is

>> very well compacted (and often wasn't) the panels tend to rock with the

>> road traffic and eventually break the rails.

>>

>>

>> On 20/5/22 21:47, Dudley Horscroft wrote:

>> > Perhaps it might be better in these high traffic areas to ensure that

>> > the concrete to top of sleeper height is completely level, then insert

>> > between the rails long concrete panels linked by some sort of mastic -

>> > tar or rubber? Similar to the panels used in Budapest but without the

>> > fixings for the rails, or the panels used in somewhere in the Czech

>> > republic - Tony knows where and can probably find the advertising

>> > material on these.

>> >

>> > Regards

>> >

>> > Dudley

>> >

>> > On 20/05/2022 9:36 pm, David Batho wrote:

>> >> Thank you, all, for some recondite observations.

>> >>

>> >> David

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>> On 11 May 2022, at 11:14 am, Mal Rowe mal....@...> wrote:

>> >>>

>> >>> On 08/05/2022 13:10, Mal Rowe wrote:

>> >>>> The strength and finished surface are starting to show some problems.

>> >>>>

>> >>> As promised, I went out to get some pics of some problems with some

>> >>> of Melbourne's tramways renewed using the current technique.

>> >>>

>> >>> The technique involves concrete to sleeper height, then crushed

>> >>> rock/concrete fill to just below rail height and topping off with

>> >>> bitumen.

>> >>>

>> >>> It mostly works well, but there are at least a couple of places

>> >>> where problems with the road surface have emerged.

>> >>>

>> >>> The two attached pics show Bridge Rd Richmond where there is very

>> >>> heavy road traffic. The use of "Vienna stops" in this location

>> >>> concentrates the motor traffic on the tramway section of the road.

>> >>> Most motorists avoid going up and over the kerbside lane. It looks

>> >>> like the crushed rock has not been stable enough and the bitumen

>> >>> surface is breaking up. The tramway is fine - just the road surface

>> >>> is failing.

>> >>>

>> >>> The other location I have noticed problems is in Dawson St

>> >>> Brunswick. The section of roadway outside the tram rails is quite

>> >>> uneven - driving along it in a car one notices 'long period

>> >>> corrugations' that give a bumpy ride.

>> >>>

>> >>> Getting the crushed fill to pack down is tricky - the small roller

>> >>> that is used (see: https://tdu.to/i/80550 ) is probably not able to

>> >>> do the job properly.

>> >>>

>> >>> Mal Rowe - grateful to Warren Doubleday for the 'heads up' on Bridge

>> >>> Rd.

>> >>>

>> >>> --

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>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit

>> >>>

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/941d6aa4-3f90-637d-9aec-a5309d9d2b7a%40gmail.com

>> .

>> >>> <2096_BridgeRd_10May2022.JPG><Damage-BridgeRd_10May2022.JPG>

>> >

>>

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>> .

>>

>