A quick look at reasonably modern directories in my possession is not conclusive: my early-50s Morgan's suggests (the edge of Map 1A is too close for one to be sure) that Swanston St ends at Flinders St and my 1998 UBD is unequivocal that St Kilda Rd extends as far north as Flinders St ((main) Map3), while my 2007 Melway is adamant that Swanston St extends to the northern end of Princes Bridge (Maps 1B, 1D and 2F). The argument in favour of St K Rd being the correct description is bolstered by MMBW 40':1" plan 874/875, which boldly shows 'St Kilda Road" both on and north of the bridge. My guess is that, back before the grand Princes Bridge that we know today, St K Rd started at Flinders St, crossed the rather ramshackle (1843) bridge known colloquially as Balbirnie's Bridge and later the first Prince's Bridge (a stone arch structure opened in 1851, known also as Lennox's Bridge after its designer) and it was accepted that the bridge (in whatever form) had no effect on the name of the road. But names get changed, as witness the Yarra Bank Road on the MMBW plan, which became Batman Avenue and now survives in diminished state as Princes Walk, and Madeleine St, which was absorbed into Swanston St (north of Victoria St). Just to look at it, one would think that the section from Flinders St to the bridge is part of Swanston St, as compared with the gracious boulevard on the other side of the river, so perhaps an official name change took place some time after the diversion of Batman Avenue to Exhibition St. However, startling as it may seem, it appears that the correct caption for the photo would refer to St Kilda Rd. What do the street signs say these days?
JWW
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From:tramsdownunder@... tramsdownunder@...> on behalf of Vera Mills gleng20.mills@...>
Sent: Friday, 8 October 2021 8:19 PM
To:tramsdownunder@... tramsdownunder@...>
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: TMSV # 127
Hello,
Google is confused!
First look at https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.818179,144.9667171,225m/data=!3m1!1e3 href="https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2F%40-37.818179%2C144.9667171%2C225m%2Fdata%3D!3m1!1e3&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c074bd09b5042be178708d98a98f5f2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637693211844812290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=vvnCtAqx5QthsTXzcdnO2mrJ98ZVG6%2BgwsbAzz2YlhQ%3D&reserved=0">https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2F%40-37.818179%2C144.9667171%2C225m%2Fdata%3D!3m1!1e3&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c074bd09b5042be178708d98a98f5f2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637693211844812290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=vvnCtAqx5QthsTXzcdnO2mrJ98ZVG6%2BgwsbAzz2YlhQ%3D&reserved=0
Then look @ https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8186358,144.9679018,3a,75y,171.27h,93.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKDLkCHEZ4f7tdwqjjunpDA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4 href="https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2F%40-37.8186358%2C144.9679018%2C3a%2C75y%2C171.27h%2C93.13t%2Fdata%3D!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKDLkCHEZ4f7tdwqjjunpDA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c074bd09b5042be178708d98a98f5f2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637693211844822284%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Bu3QRmNIrcbbJ9PScjNlw6NqRMCjTR%2BRaqha8nRewYA%3D&reserved=0">https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2F%40-37.8186358%2C144.9679018%2C3a%2C75y%2C171.27h%2C93.13t%2Fdata%3D!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKDLkCHEZ4f7tdwqjjunpDA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c074bd09b5042be178708d98a98f5f2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637693211844822284%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Bu3QRmNIrcbbJ9PScjNlw6NqRMCjTR%2BRaqha8nRewYA%3D&reserved=0
I think you will find that the southern end of all streets in the CBD that cross Flinders St end at the north bank of the river because it was a few years later that the bridge was built.
Regards,
Glen Mills
On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 at 02:06, John Wayman john.wayman@...mailto:john.wayman@hotmail.com> wrote:
I just checked on street view on Google Earth. There are street signs outside Flinders Street Station next to the bridge and at Swanston and Flinders Streets I terse Toon that cleat Mark it as Swanston Street,
Cheers
John Wayman
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From:tramsdownunder@...mailto:tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com tramsdownunder@...mailto:tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> on behalf of espee8800 espee8800@...mailto:espee8800@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 9:57:03 PM
To: tramsdownunder tramsdownunder@...mailto:tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: TMSV # 127
Hi David,
Its a puzzle alright. I don't necessarily agree with Google maps as they only get their information from somewhere else. I'd like to get proper information from someone who knows officially. Of course it may have been the way I said and has changed officially to what you say, I'd like to find that reference as well. I don't particularly like unknowns of this nature, the correct information is out there somewhere.
Now to round off this discourse, some tram pictures from last century. These were all taken on 22 September1979 whilst doing a day around Melbourne on one of the newly created 'Passmaster. ticket. They are not in any particular order, part of the day was tram 581 Flinders Street to Moonee Ponds, tram 560 to Ascot Vale, tram 504 toWest Maribyrnong, and tram 700 from the junction to Footscray.
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On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 01:26, David Featherstone davidh.feathers@...mailto:davidh.feathers@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi David, nice to hear from you - better late than never. This one crops up often - the roadway between the river and Flinders St is in my respectful opinion St Kilda Rd, Swanston St not starting until Flinders St. The border of the two roads is not Princes Bridge. Mr Google thinks so too!
Hey, who cares anyway.
Stay safe, David.
On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 11:53 PM espee8800 espee8800@...mailto:espee8800@gmail.com> wrote:
And 886 is turning into Swanston Street, not St Kilda Road. The border of the two roads is Princes Bridge - Swanston St on the north bank and St Kilda Road on the south.
Hmm a reply over 12 months in the making. Well actually I have been deleting posts to save some space and saving images at the same time when I came across this one.
On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 07:30, David Featherstone davidh.feathers@...mailto:davidh.feathers@gmail.com> wrote:
Oops, 894 is East of Swanston St. Gotta get a new compass.
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cheers and best wishes,
David in Avenel.au,
[Before you change anything, learn why it is the way it is.]
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[Before you change anything, learn why it is the way it is.]
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