Thanks, Tony
Only just got around to reading my emails
Regards
Dudley
On 21/07/2021 7:11 am, TP wrote:
> This should clarify Dudley:
>
> Both completed and on order products:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%C5%A0koda_Transportation_products#Tramcars
>
> Completed products only:
> https://www.skoda.cz/en/products/tramcars/
>
> The one variant missing from these lists is the 27T, which is the China-market version of the 15T, not listed because it is manufactured under licence in China by CRRC, not by Skoda. The plans I posted a while ago are very similar to the China version (2650 mm wide 2+2 across seating). I don't know whether you saw that post?
>
> Tony P
>
> On Wednesday, 21 July 2021 at 01:16:22 UTC+10transit...@... wrote:
>
> Sorry, Tony, I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. In Wikipaedia
> under 15T there is a lengthy table of the 15 T and other
> varieties generically labelled "For City", such as the 26T. These
> appear to be derivatives of the 14T, which is what I meant.
>
> The progression seems to be 14T, 26T and 28T, 30T, 29T. These are
> labelled "ForCity Plus" The "ForCity Smart" are the design
> originally for Helsinki, and not given a number but also labelled
> as "Artic". The 35T is based on the 28T. All rather confusing,
> but perhaps not as bad as the Bombardier naming method, where it
> seems that the same product is given different names, and
> different products have the same name. Or perhaps I have just got
> rather confused?
>
> Regards
>
> Dudley Horscroft
>
> On 21/07/2021 12:15 am, TP wrote:
>> The Skoda 15T isn't a derivative of the 14T, it's a completely
>> different design. The 14T belongs to the same family of
>> fixed-truck trams as the Citadis etc (though runs better than the
>> Citadis). The 15T is a patent design of its own and has no direct
>> derivatives as no-one is using Jacobs bogies nowadays and Skoda
>> has patented the best Jacobs bogie design for a low-floor tram.
>> So the third stream of design platform in current low-floor trams
>> - for operators wanting proper swivelling bogie trams - is that
>> represented by the E class. This has the disadvantage of the
>> bogies being within the cabins, hence constraining internal
>> layout and door configuration options, but it's quite a popular
>> design nowadays as trams are conceived more as standee vehicles
>> and not so much attention is given to the niceties of seating.
>> Within this design group, however, there are sometimes different
>> bogie layouts for individual clients, including a mixture of
>> fixed and swivelling bogies.
>>
>> So that's the state of the art at present with no major
>> technology shifts (other than the wireless or autonomous tram) on
>> the horizon. That early era of experimentation with low-floor
>> engineering, of which the Cobra and Eurotram were examples, is over.
>>
>> Tony P
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 July 2021 at 22:09:56 UTC+10
>> transit...@... wrote:
>>
>> Mention of the Zurich Cobra Trams led me to browsing the
>> Eurotram. and thence the Bombardier family of trams, with the
>> woeful story of Bombardier trams in Ontario. This again led
>> to the Skoda 15T and its derivatives - or perhaps I should
>> say the derivatives of the 14T with their problems ironed out.
>>
>> This led me to wonder, has there been any real advance in
>> tram design (other than technology) since the Eurotram and
>> the Skoda 15T. How does the Melbourne E class stack up
>> against these?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Dudley Horscroft
>>
>> On 20/07/2021 9:02 pm, TP wrote:
>>> Do you think so David? Like most older trams, I would
>>> describe the Ringhoffers most kindly as "quaint". My
>>> favourites are the American PCC and their derivative, the
>>> Tatra T3, and the Sydney R/R1, all first-rate examples of
>>> early modernity with high aesthetic quality. However, it's
>>> important to preserve representative examples of various
>>> types of vehicle throughout history and I admire any example
>>> of a fine restoration, whatever the vehicle. The low-floor
>>> era has brought more consistent aesthetics, though it's all
>>> reached a level of sameness where only the nose cone
>>> distinguishes them and there are certainly some ugly doozies
>>> among those. The Adtranz Cobra is my favourite example of
>>> good aesthetics in a low-floor tram. The fact that they
>>> didn't work so well is another subject, something that can't
>>> be said of the PCCs, the Tatra T3 and the R/R1!
>>>
>>> Tony P
>>> On Tuesday, 20 July 2021 at 15:40:40 UTC+10
>>> dba...@... wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Tony. Much nicer looking than the more modern
>>> ones I saw in Prague.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 20 Jul 2021, at 2:28 pm, TP
>>>> histor...@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Any excuse for a good tram parade. Leading the parade
>>>> is no. 18 from Pilsen, the oldest operating electric
>>>> tram in Central Europe.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.expats.cz/czech-news/article/parade-of-historical-trams-honors-130-years-on-prague-rails
>>>> https://www.expats.cz/czech-news/article/parade-of-historical-trams-honors-130-years-on-prague-rails
>>>>
>>>> A fine summer's day for it:
>>>>
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/217713156_4143216382434848_5688233704860129311_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=OWQJ0WiABsIAX_-jGHj&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=7fd2670dda4621fe0f0b9b08ab0174ff&oe=60FA7930
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/217713156_4143216382434848_5688233704860129311_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=OWQJ0WiABsIAX_-jGHj&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=7fd2670dda4621fe0f0b9b08ab0174ff&oe=60FA7930
>>>>
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/218851538_4143216159101537_4069468143783729548_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nGyYLDEAJWIAX_pcPvH&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=0f3d9330e5a0dcf801bc1bfe8fc844e1&oe=60FC0207
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/218851538_4143216159101537_4069468143783729548_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nGyYLDEAJWIAX_pcPvH&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=0f3d9330e5a0dcf801bc1bfe8fc844e1&oe=60FC0207
>>>>
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/217400009_4143216069101546_4036194390772267216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5zZFviFZ-RQAX-8do0O&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=4fa1173d5ed32a537814d5e4d0ed640a&oe=60FC0FCA
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/217400009_4143216069101546_4036194390772267216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5zZFviFZ-RQAX-8do0O&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=4fa1173d5ed32a537814d5e4d0ed640a&oe=60FC0FCA
>>>>
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/217663901_4143216059101547_3602521447494159218_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WOzZ4QRrXWEAX-ZuuTs&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=89d5a5b483a2aa49eb1b47a067744afe&oe=60FBDC4F
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/217663901_4143216059101547_3602521447494159218_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WOzZ4QRrXWEAX-ZuuTs&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=89d5a5b483a2aa49eb1b47a067744afe&oe=60FBDC4F
>>>>
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/218228641_4143215932434893_2779728746671827262_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=viMSal5O4Y4AX9Qk5m0&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=77e4b0ccd67c6611889a882d30ced19b&oe=60FB759E
>>>> https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/218228641_4143215932434893_2779728746671827262_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=viMSal5O4Y4AX9Qk5m0&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd4-1.fna&oh=77e4b0ccd67c6611889a882d30ced19b&oe=60FB759E
>>>>
>>>> The photos at the multi-platform loop are at Prague's
>>>> equivalent of the Randwick Racecourse station, at
>>>> Strahov Stadium.
>>>>
>>>> Tony P
>>>>
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