I happened to be in the Sydney City on Sunday around 12:30pm. At the corner
of George St and Market St, an outward bound tram arrived. Both the traffic
and T lights were red. After say, 30 seconds, the traffic light changed and
after a bit less time, the T light. The spell bound (bored out of mind)
driver took another 10 seconds to move off. But there wasn't any cross
traffic. Almost a minute wasted for nothing. There would appear to be no
usage controlled street lights - except when an operator is allowed or
bothered to act. Everything is now done by timing, set to an estimate -
fixed in concrete from time to time - which allows for anticipated traffic
which often (predictably in a particular place), is completely absent. Then
the mandatory pedestrian "jump off" time is added before a light changes.
It appears that a further buffer is added for tram take off to avoid blind
and deaf pedestrians. The tram moves in the "historic" canyon between
Wynyard and Town Hall, with its "totally unobtrusive" smart poles, at snail
speeds. It then gets to QVB - Town Hall - St Andrews - the ONLY historic
buildings left in George St, in an ugly forest of tram stations, with the
ugliest overhead possible. Of course George St is now a pedestrain mall -
with a heavy dual direction train line running down its middle - really
taking up all of its space. On Sunday, the Pitt St mall was full but George
St pedestrians were largely confined to those scurrying across the empty
tracks. I've been in Dublin, where similar coupled trams, with old
fashioned rosette overhead (almost invisible) mix it with the buses, cars,
bikes and pedestrians and also in Jerusalem, which is a bit more like our's
but with much more disciplined intersection lights and movement speed more
like Melbourne trams. As an aside, I've had a good look at the South
Eastern and Eastern traffic rearrangements. I look at it from a person's
point of view, not a former *T*raffic *P*lanner's or a former *B*us
driver's. It is totally top down. Some poor people (many) in Coogee are
invited to upgrade their travel from one seated bus ride to up to 3
different modes of travel. In say, France or Brazil, there would be ouraged
mobs in the streets, burning cars and tearing up roads for missiles. Those
in the area will put up with it, in typically super meek Australian custom,
while the Transport experts will claim - what wonderful integration -
though a bit slow, a bit uncomfortable and on wet days, a bit wet for the
"customers"!
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 11:58:30 AM UTC+10 TP wrote:
> I've had the calculations done by the professionals in Europe. Trams are
> the winner. Don't forget they have their maximum torque from zero km/h. A
> bus doesn't. Watch a few derbies in Europe (legacy systems of course) with
> trams accelerating at 1.8 m/s/s, no contest. Even with the Sydney trams,
> however, the drivers aren't accelerating to the full potential of the tram
> (why should they, when they have to slow down soon afterwards for some
> stupid restriction?) so you can't really judge the real potential of the
> tram. Some bus drivers are now having a great time with the novelty (to
> them) of electric buses which provide a new dimension to the traffic light
> derby! That's pretty-much on par with a tram, perhaps even better.
>
> Tony P
> On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 11:41:27 AM UTC+10bblun...@... wrote:
>
>> As a regular rider on the L3, I have observed numerous "traffic light
>> derbies" and in most cases the buses have been quicker off the mark
>> initially, but the tram will catch up and overtake within 20-30 metres. An
>> accelerating bus can generally require a good hand hold if standing or
>> moving to a seat, whereas a tram does not seem to.
>>
>> On Saturday, 8 May 2021, 11:12:49 am AEST, TP histor...@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A tram will be quicker off the mark than a diesel bus and more
>> comfortable for passengers too. It's the way they're driven in Sydney and
>> the lower acceleration/deceleration specs for the Citadis and CAF that
>> might make them a bit slower.
>>
>> Tony P
>>
>> On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 9:30:56 AM UTC+10bblun...@... wrote:
>> If you put the two modes side by side in a straight uninterrupted
>> comparison, they would be pretty much the same. The tram is probably slower
>> off the mark (to give better passenger comfort) but will quickly catch up
>> to the bus.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 9:30:56 AM UTC+10bblun...@... wrote:
>>
>> If you put the two modes side by side in a straight uninterrupted
>> comparison, they would be pretty much the same. The tram is probably slower
>> off the mark (to give better passenger comfort) but will quickly catch up
>> to the bus.
>>
>> In the Sydney system there are a lot curves and "disruptions" on the tram
>> route. It takes a 65 metre tram much longer to get around a corner and
>> recover than a 12 metre bus. Many of these curves are quite tight radius,
>> obvious from the flange squealing that results.
>>
>> The journey time is longer end to end because the tram route is longer
>> than the bus, and has more interruptions from cross traffic and
>> pedestrians.
>>
>> On Saturday, 8 May 2021, 8:04:36 am AEST, 'TONY TIEULI' via
>> TramsDownUnder tramsdo...@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Gear ratio?
>>
>>
>> TONY TIEULI
>>cir...@...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 7, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Mick Duncan kit...@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Gday All
>> >
>> > Why is a 600 Hp tram slower than a 200 Hp bus allowing for power to
>> > weight ratios
>> >
>> > Cheers, Mick
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "TramsDownUnder" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email totramsdownunder+unsub...@....
>>
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/508a2f32-dde1-e2ec-60ea-597db3279274%40bigpond.net.au
>> .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "TramsDownUnder" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email totramsdownunder+unsub...@....
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/29C9910A-1020-4370-92EE-649CFB6765F1%40aol.com
>> .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "TramsDownUnder" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email totramsdownunde...@....
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/391e5f5a-e049-4aef-b9d1-605ceaa73cc5n%40googlegroups.com
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/391e5f5a-e049-4aef-b9d1-605ceaa73cc5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>> .
>>
>