High Cross Park is pretty significant locally, but that's not the main
reason that option was dropped. It's because the trams would have to cross
the very busy Avoca St intersection (slowly, being on a curve) and also
deal with a scissors crossover into the platform while being partly in the
intersection, blocking it during the excruciating procedure. That would
have extended the already painful crawl up High St into the terminus too.
It also meant that people wanting the Prince of Wales hospital complex
(which is a big part of the tram's market at that end) would be carried
past it and then would have to cross back over Avoca St to get to it. It's
still possible to put an inward bus stop next to the terminus in Avoca St
but whether they will do it remains to be seen. The outward bus stop is
more difficult to resolve and crossing the roads on lights can't be avoided.
Tony P
(who prefers tramways that don't have crossovers)
On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 20:51:50 UTC+10bblun...@... wrote:
> That is what was originally proposed, but it involved chopping a section
> of a local park with a small War Memorial in one corner. The locals
> objected quite vocally, leaving TfNSW with no other alternative. Now these
> vocal locals are complaining about having to walk to connect.
>
> On Friday, 7 May 2021, 8:22:49 pm AEST, Andrew C andrewh...@...>
> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks. It is hardly an interchange whereby you walk a few metres from a
> bus to a tram. It was known in advance what was going to happen with the
> buses. A proper sheltered interchange should have been built whereby
> passengers step out of the bus and straight on to a tram. This is really
> not good at all.
>
> Andrew.
>
>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> <#m_1283666899079908492_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 18:32, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>
> I hope this grab from google maps works out legible for you:
>
> https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.9168551,151.2409422,351m/data=!3m1!1e3
>
> The inward bus stop is about 170 metres north of the tram stop along
> Belmore Rd before the corner of Arthur St. The outward stop is on the other
> side of Belmore Rd much closer to the Avoca St intersection. An inward stop
> was proposed in Avoca St at the corner or High St, right next to the tram
> (the hatching along the left side of Avoca St) but this has since been
> converted into a general traffic slip lane.
>
> Tony P
>
> On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 18:10:46 UTC+10andrewh...@... wrote:
>
> Tony, would you mind telling us exactly where the bus stop is for the
> Randwick Interchange? I've looked at the linked map and Google Maps and I
> can't work it out.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew.
>
>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> <#m_1283666899079908492_m_4655362260650134756_m_-3480608676600533290_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 22:41, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>
> Here's a map of the proposed changes:
>
>
> https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-05/South%20East%20map.pdf
>
> Broadly simplifying the spagetti bowl (and Brian will no doubt correct me
> if I'm wrong), the former routes from the SE will be truncated to
> interchange with the tram at Kingsford and Randwick but those buses
> themselves will run on past the termini to new cross-suburban destinations,
> rather than into the city. However, there will be peak express buses
> continuing to run to and from the Elizabeth St side of the CBD using a
> clever contra peak traffic-flow route entering the northern end of the CBD
> at Shakespeare Place and proceeding south along Elizabeth St to Museum
> Station (and vice versa in evening peak).
>
> Apropos a discussion earlier in this forum, there will be only four bus
> routes remaining serving Circular Quay, two to the inner southern suburbs,
> the major 333 route to Bondi and 396 to Maroubra. All other buses are
> proceeding no further north than Martin Place. The job of connecting to the
> ferries is left mainly to the train and light rail, but the 333 will ensure
> a significant tourist route (the busiest bus route in Australia) is still
> connected to the ferries.
>
> So the grand scheme slowly comes to fruition but the slow journey time of
> the light rail is a blot on it causing a lot of resentment, together with
> the very poor interchange arrangements at Randwick (fair distance to the
> bus stops, in the open and, in one direction, having a signalled pedestrian
> crossing to access).
>
> It'll be a bit like those abortive Adelaide changes. A lot of it actually
> good, but public fear and misunderstanding stirs up a lot of anxiety.
> Unlike Adelaide, this won't be abandoned though.
>
> Tony P
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 14:38:49 UTC+10 TP wrote:
>
> That integration with L1 was an early ideal, but it fell foul of the slow
> tram journey. People would want to stay on the buses. L1 still needs 5
> minutes chopped off the trip which is perfectly possible (but maybe not
> under TfNSW and Transdev). Fortunately, all the light rail lines are
> popular enough within their own catchments. Interchange and integration
> with buses isn't their strong point because the tram services are too slow
> to compensate for the interchange time.
>
> Tony P
>
> On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 13:03:05 UTC+10a...@... wrote:
>
> Also, when Constance cited Green Square as a failure in integrating
> development with transport he fails to mention how the state government has
> strenuously ignored the city council push for a tram route to that area,
> and the option of a new station on the airport railway at the Doody St
> commercial precinct in Alexandria a bit further southwest from there hasn’t
> been considered since it was deleted from the original design.
>
> I’ll be interested to see what they do with the 370 and 418, the two bus
> routes that connect my area to the inner southeast. By contrast there has
> never been any attempt to integrate the inner west bus services with the L1
> despite many points where they intersect between Glebe Point Rd and New
> Canterbury Rd.
>
> Tony
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 12:20 pm, TP histor...@...> wrote:
>
> The tram angle on this is that they're finally implementing forced
> interchange of many bus routes with the tram at Kingsford and Randwick.
> (Without doing the preparatory work like getting the journey time down to
> under 30 minutes or moving the bus stops at Randwick to somewhere near the
> tram terminus.)
>
>
> https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-05/Summary%20of%20South%20East%20bus%20routes%20changes.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3ezMkCfUo5xlonulLZ7OwJ89Adjb3B5Qdgm0R22iE_Z4PNKqjVoqaVNBU
>
> Watch the shyte hit the fan from SE commuters now.
>
> Slowness - the fatal flaw of "modern light rail".
>
> Tony P
>
> On Thursday, 6 May 2021 at 11:33:33 UTC+10a...@... wrote:
>
>
> https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/dozens-of-sydney-bus-services-cut-in-eastern-suburbs-transport-overhaul-20210506-p57pd7.html
>
>
> Dozens of Sydney bus services cut in eastern suburbs transport overhaul
> Tom RabeMay 6, 2021 — 9.57am
>
> More than 20 bus routes will be cut from Sydney’s eastern suburbs and
> another 23 “modified” as part of a planned major overhaul of the region’s
> transport system.
>
> Transport Minister Andrew Constance confirmed on Thursday that 25 bus
> routes would be removed from the south east Sydney region as the government
> looks to funnel more people onto the CBD light rail.
> [image: More than 20 bus services will be cut under an overhaul of eastern
> suburbs public transport.]
> More than 20 bus services will be cut under an overhaul of eastern suburbs
> public transport.James Alcock
>
> As the government cuts bus services across the eastern suburbs, it will
> divert more towards the booming Green Square region, where patronage grew
> by 50 per cent between 2016 and 2019.
>
> Asked whether eastern suburbs commuters were being punished for poor
> planning decisions around the Green Square region, Mr Constance
> acknowledged the government was having to “retrofit” the area with
> transport options.
>
> “To be honest with you, I think it’s one of the worst examples in the
> country’s history where we’ve seen planning get ahead of mass transit
> solutions,” Mr Constance said.
>
> “It’s terrible to think that we’ve seen the highest concentration of
> apartment dwellings with next to no foresight into what we should do for a
> mass transit solution.”
>
> While dozens of services across the eastern suburbs will be impacted by
> the changes, Mr Constance said the capacity for the region would be boosted
> by 40 per cent during peak hour for commuters heading to the city.
>
> Among the services being cut are the popular 373 from Coogee to Circular
> Quay and the 393 from Little Bay to Central as well as the X40, X93 and X99.
>
> Mr Constance said light rail services would operate every four minutes
> between Circular Quay and Moore Park and every eight minutes between Moore
> Park, Randwick and Kingsford on weekdays between 7am and 7pm.
>
> “The L2 and L3 lines have changed the way customers travel to and from the
> CBD, by providing frequent turn-up-and-go services, so we need to update
> our bus schedules accordingly,” Mr Constance said.
>
> The minister said decisions to cut certain routes were based on 2019 Opal
> data given the massive downturn in patronage during the COVID-19 pandemic.
> Bus services cut
>
> 300, 301, 302, 309X, 310X, 314, 316, 317, 338, 353, 357, 372, 373, 376,
> 377, 391, 393, 394, 395, 400, 400N, L94, X40, X93, X99
> Bus services modified
>
> 303, 304, 307, 309, 313, 320, 339, 339X, 343, 347, 355, 362, 370, 373X,
> 374, 374X, 377X, 392, 397, 399, 418, 420, 420N
>
> Patronage growth on Sydney’s CBD light rail has outpaced all other modes
> in the bounceback from COVID-19, though it is returning from a much lower
> base.
>
> Commuters will be able to provide feedback to the plan before June 19,
> with the government aiming to implement the changes in late 2021.
>
> The *Herald* last year revealed
> https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/leaked-government-document-reveals-slated-sydney-bus-cuts-20200227-p5453l.html
> the government was considering cutting several bus routes from Sydney’s
> eastern suburbs to make way for the CBD light rail.
>
> Labor member for Coogee Marjorie O’Neill said the cuts were worse than
> expected.
>
> “This will mean heavily used express services are permanently cut and
> thousands of people will face a far longer commute,” Ms O’Neill said.
>
> “This is nothing but a desperate attempt to prop up the failing light rail
> by forcing commuters on to it.”
> Start your day informed
>
> Our Morning Edition newsletter is a curated guide to the most important
> and interesting stories, analysis and insights. Get it delivered to your
> inbox.
> [image: Tom Rabe]
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TramsDownUnder" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email totramsdownunde...@....
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/23b52244-bdab-4712-8310-b0e63599ec4an%40googlegroups.com
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/23b52244-bdab-4712-8310-b0e63599ec4an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> .
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TramsDownUnder" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email totramsdownunde...@....
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/52376e20-2683-40de-b777-063a1df53435n%40googlegroups.com
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/52376e20-2683-40de-b777-063a1df53435n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> .
>
>
>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> <#m_1283666899079908492_m_4655362260650134756_m_-3480608676600533290_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TramsDownUnder" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email totramsdownunde...@....
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/7198b765-cf36-4cf4-a1ca-e1fdb6625264n%40googlegroups.com
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/7198b765-cf36-4cf4-a1ca-e1fdb6625264n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TramsDownUnder" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email totramsdownunde...@....
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/CAFAp8e0bXGPhD_SMaBYESJfpek207%3DG-5BDW-T287gQBrNS9Sw%40mail.gmail.com
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/CAFAp8e0bXGPhD_SMaBYESJfpek207%3DG-5BDW-T287gQBrNS9Sw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> .
>