Re: Re: Impact of Sydney Metro project will ‘shock everyone’, NSW Transport Minister Andrew Constance says | Gold Coast Bulletin

I'm not going to try run a rational argument against one that distorts
facts. In the end, it's the regular commuters who will vote on it and the
experience and feedback in the NW suggests that they love it very much and
that's from people who experience both systems, so have an actual regular
daily-experience basis for comparison, not "feelings" based on infrequent
out-of-peak visits. Let's just wait until the rest of the line opens in a
couple of years or so and we'll find out that the dissenters turn out to be
in fact a tiny bubble.

The last TfNSW customer satisfaction survey results were 98% overall
satisfaction with ferry services, 96% for metro, 91% for buses and 90% each
for light rail and suburban rail. One of the highest points of satisfaction
with the metro service (99%) was journey time for the distance travelled.
One of the lowest scores on the suburban system (90%) was journey time for
the distance travelled - and that would be semi-express travel for longer
distances. The suburban system also scored only 88% on frequency of service
(cf. metro 95%) and 91% on personal space (cf. metro 95%). But let's not
let the facts stand in the way of a good story.

I guess the next angle of attack then has to be on unthinking, ignorant
commuters who "don't understand" how "bad" they have it on the metro.

Out of interest, overall customer satisfaction with suburban trains has
been pretty level since 2016, bus satisfaction has been rising slowly,
ferry and metro satisfaction have been consistently high (the latter over
two years) and light rail satisfaction has been slowly declining, poor
frequency and overcrowding being the main areas of dissatisfaction (that
would be mainly IWLR). Journey time is not a strong point either and that
was mostly before the advent of CSELR set new low standards.

Tony P

On Wednesday, 13 January 2021 at 12:49:47 UTC+11 Richard Youl wrote:



> Whoopee-Doo-Deeee! 🎉🎊


> 95 years of advances in electric railway technology will produce trains 4

> minutes faster than what the weak old single deck trains could manage in

> 1978, call it a two minute saving when you subtract the two less stations

> to be served.


> Sure, there will be more trains. But that’s a hollow victory for

> commuters, arguably those were the tightest daily schedules, who will lose

> their express trains, not to mention anyone travelling between stations on

> opposite sides of Bankstown who will now have to change trains at that

> station to continue their journeys. I’m sure that regular commuters know

> what time their expresses run and get themselves to the station in time.


> With only longitudinal seats, like it or not but passages will be subject

> to the lateral forces of acceleration and braking on top of the delight or

> potentially having somebody’s bottom inches from your nose!


> I could not really find out how much the Bankstown conversion cost will be

> although one estimate of $7 billion seemed a bit high, but it certainly

> will not be cheap.


> Small carriages means more wheels, motors, doors and other equipment to

> maintain, not to mention all the station doors. These are ongoing costs

> which must be greater than for the existing double deck fleet because of

> the numbers involved and extra equipment needed.


> Sure, extend the Metro but build it into some area currently with only

> road public transport serving the needs of the populace but leave Bankstown

> alone, although now it is too late for that.


> It seems like an enormous expense just to get rid of some train drivers

> and guards.


> Regards,







> On 12 Jan 2021, at 1:08 pm, TP histor...@...> wrote:



> It's a funny world nowadays. In my day, a faster, more frequent commuter

> service was considered to be progress; nowadays, to some (but I suspect not

> the vast majority) it's apparently not. The metro will cover

> Bankstown-Central in 28 minutes, stopping at every one of eleven

> intermediate stations. I imagine the initial timetable will be every 4

> minutes in peaks and 10 minutes off-peak, with six-car trains with a

> capacity of 1,100 including seats for 378. The system has a design capacity

> for eight-car trains (1,500 passengers including 504 seats) every two

> minutes. So, just in terms of seats (which represent only about 1/3 of

> total capacity), the service will initially deliver 5,670 seats per hour

> (15 trains) in peaks and 2,268 seats (6 trains) per hour off-peak (bearing

> in mind off-peak trains are usually far from full), with a design maximum

> capacity of 15,120 seats per hour.


> Let's look at the current service and I'll choose the 0730 to 0830 time

> slot to assess peak figures and after 0900 to assess off-peak. The

> eight-car trains have about 900 seats.


> Now, the first thing you have to do is choose where you want to live very

> carefully, because not every train serves every station. If you want the

> best possible service, you need to live at Bankstown, Sydenham or Redfern.

> These suburbs get 9 trains an hour in peak and 6 off-peak, which is 8,100

> and 5,400 seats per hour respectively. Your journey takes between 26

> minutes (on trains that only stop at four stops) and 35 minutes for trains

> that stop at all stops. The catch with the fastest trains is that you have

> to wait a bit for them - about 10 minutes in peak and 30 minutes off peak,

> which sort of cancels the journey time gain. In addition, if you want to

> get off at a station along the line that is bypassed by the semi-expresses,

> all calculations go out the window. It's Central or bust.


> On the other hand, if you live at Wiley Park, Canterbury or Hurlstone

> Park, you're waiting about 15 minutes for a train and then the trip takes

> 35 minutes - about 3,600 seats per hour. Between those two extremes there's

> a random mixture of stations that the faster trains stop at, almost like

> somebody blindfolded randomly tossed darts at a map of the SW suburbs, but

> Lakemba, Campsie and Marrickville are the most favoured. Journey times and

> seats are obviously in a range between the two extremes.


> So the outcome is that the discrepancy in seating per hour is not anywhere

> as extreme as made out by metro opponents and is more than compensated by a

> faster journey, at greater frequency and with the convenience of stopping

> at all stations. I think you'll find, as in the NSW, most people will be

> more than happy on the basis of these extra benefits.


> Tony P


> On Tuesday, 12 January 2021 at 12:13:30 UTC+11gnhan...@... wrote:


>> I wouldn't be happy if I was a regular Bankstown line user.


>> Regards Geoffrey

>> ------------------------------

>> *From:*tramsdo...@... tramsdo...@...> on

>> behalf of TP histor...@...>

>> *Sent:* Monday, 11 January 2021 10:33 AM

>> *To:* TramsDownUnder tramsdo...@...>

>> *Subject:* [TramsDownUnder] Re: Impact of Sydney Metro project will

>> ‘shock everyone’, NSW Transport Minister Andrew Constance says | Gold Coast

>> Bulletin


>> Two to be exact: faster journey and more trains per hour.


>> Tony P


>> On Monday, 11 January 2021 at 17:24:56 UTC+11 Richard Youl wrote:


>> I’m sure the Bankstown train travellers will be shocked in more ways than

>> one!







>> Regards,



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