"different tram standards for the two existing lines was a far more pressing issue. "
Agreed.
And where does the responsibility for this fiasco lie?
And what is being done to rectify this situation?
Please leave the spin doctors contributions out of this crucial debate.
Greg
On 7/07/2019 7:02 pm, Mark Skinner wrote:
> It looks a bit like the ancient argument of maximum traction cars vs all wheel drive.
>
> What Tony said was you can have trams go up steep slopes with all wheel drive, which Sydney O class cars had, so no disagreement there. Unless I am mistaken in thinking O's had 4 motors? However, he pointed out that If a system only had one steep slope requiring all axles driven, then that may have influenced the statement. This was pretty much the argument put by proponents of maximum traction cars - and it worked well enough where grades were flat. It's hardly a cause for debate.
>
> Of course, once a system grows, and there's lots of hills, the situation changes. If the Sydney system grows and there are many hilly sections, it becomes another matter. Mind you, I would have thought that different tram standards for the two existing lines was a far more pressing issue.
>
> On Sun, 7 Jul. 2019, 10:00 am Geoff Olsen, gol80579@... mailto:gol80579@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> I did not say that Tony said it.....
> *From:* Mark Skinner mailto:emessk@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 07, 2019 5:55 PM
> *To:*tramsdownunder@...
> mailto:tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Inner west light rail
> Tony's not saying it cannot be done, it's whoever made the
> official statement saying that.
> On Sun, 7 Jul. 2019, 9:38 am Geoff Olsen, gol80579@...
> mailto:gol80579@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> Tony, the statement was that High St is too steep for trams
> there was no mention of number of driven axles. If all wheels
> driven is overkill are you saying that Sydney got it wrong
> from 1908 onwards?
> Geoff O.
> *From:* Prescott mailto:lenkaprescott@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 07, 2019 7:02 AM
> *To:* TramsDownUnder mailto:tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Inner west light rail
> I can't recall Geoff, it was all calculated some years ago by
> the Sydney City Council transport team. It also needs to be
> borne in mind that, while it is possible to specify a tram to
> climb extreme gradients (like the Sheffield trams), this comes
> at a greater cost (typically all wheels powered) and this may
> not be warranted if there's only one particular grade in the
> whole system to deal with, so it's overkill. Thus the system
> is generally designed to enable operation by a fleet that has
> a more standard performance specification.
> Tony P
>
> On Saturday, 6 July 2019 19:08:04 UTC+10, Geoff Olsen wrote:
>
> How steep is High Street? I was working at Loftus today
> and drove a 1912 vintage tram (1111) up Army Hill which is
> a little steeper than 1 in 20. Driving it back down was
> not too dramatic either considering that I had friends and
> relatives as passengers.
> Geoff O.
>
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