Re: Re: Sydney Metro

The interesting thing about the Perth trains is, it can do all the metro can, faster in fact and yet, it's narrow gauge and it is operated by a living person!Greg Sent from Samsung tablet.
-------- Original message --------From: Tim Boxsell timbo247@...> Date: 10/06/2019 8:52 PM (GMT+10:00) To: TDU tramsdownunder@...> Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Sydney Metro Hi Tony P. If you build it, they will come. seems like a good thing to say about the Metro.I noticed you mentioned that people don't mind standing even though there are seats available. Shows the whingers know nothing ! In Manila, the LRT 2 is a similar train (Built by Hyundai-Rotem I think) single deck plenty of doors per side & longitudinal seating. The distance from end to end is about a half hour ride. I don't know the distance in KM.The service is very popular and it's a mad rush to get on board to get a seat. The Hills district of Sydney is LONG overdue for any kind of transport system & this ticks all the boxes ! Teething probs are to be expected of a new system.The link to the Vid of the Perth B series train outpacing the road traffic is quite amazing.Last time I was in Perth (1989) there were no electric trains. !Regards,Tim, in Sydney. On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 22:45, Prescott lenkaprescott@...> wrote:I took a ride on the metro today immediately after returning from Perth, so was able to do a back to back comparison of Australia's two rapid transit systems. Apparently the Metro has already reached its first million riders after a mere two weeks. I boarded at North Ryde and went to Tallawong and return. The trains were massively packed unless you got one that followed a previous one by a few minutes. Many people are using it locally, for shopping at Castle Hill or Rouse Hill rather than to the city. Many including whole families are quite obviously happy to stand even when seats are available. The demand is extraordinary. It's an absolutely transformational service for its region.I was most impressed by the quietness, both on the trains and the completely screened-off platforms - none of the roaring and screaming noises typical of underground stations. Pity they didn't do the same on the stations through North Ryde.The acceleration/deceleration of the trains, although far better than that of the double deckers, has definitely been "detuned" for "local expectations" compared to metro performance overseas. From familiarity with this syndrome with local trams, this is a process of dumbing down whereby the bureaucrats and engineers decide that the travelling public is accustomed to the lethargic pace of, in this case, the traditional suburban trains and it is felt that they shouldn't be subject to being frightened by being accelerated at warp speeds (which I'm sure they wouldn't be because it's smooth electric traction, but the bureaucrats think they will). Without having access to the figures, I deduce this by direct experience of back to back performances. The last European metro I rode was the very zippy Prague metro and, soon after, I was able to ride the Perth system. Although Perth had many similarities, I found that the acceleration/deceleration was markedly slower than that of the Prague metro. So since I was in Perth the last few days and rode the Sydney metro immediately upon return, I found straight away that the acceleration/deceleration of the Sydney metro trains is a tiny bit slower than that of the Perth trains. So from this I deduce that the Sydney metro is being operated quite leisurely compared to its overseas metro counterparts. I'm sure that could get a minute or two off some runs if they didn't spare the horses so much. Nevertheless, this shouldn't overshadow the fact that it moves along much quicker than its double deck companions and this is a significant achievement on its own.To go further into the Perth performance comparisons, I can say that the Fremantle-Midland line, built in the 1880s with typically 1 to 1.5 km station spacings, is directly comparable with the early inner Sydney lines that have similar stop spacings, including the Bankstown line. The Armadale line in Perth, built in the 1890s in a more rural environment, has average stop spacings of 2 to 3 km which is directly comparable with the Sydney NW metro. The north-south line in Perth has stop spacings of 4 km + and thus higher average speeds and has no direct metro counterpart in Sydney yet. So the most presently relevant comparisons I can present here are thus:Perth:Perth-Mosman Park (13.5 km): 11 stops, 21 minutesSydney Metro:Sydenham-Bankstown (13.4 km): 9 stops, 21 minutes (projected time)Sydney Suburban: Sydenham-Bankstown (13.4 km): 9 stops, 25 minutesPerth:Beckenham-Armadale (16.2 km): 7 stops, 20 minsSydney Metro:Tallawong-Cherrybrook (16 km): 6 stops, 18 mins)Sydney Suburban:Parramatta-Quakers Hill (16.7 km): 7 stops, 25 minsSo in the case of the Bankstown line, the metro isn't anticipated to do quite as well as the Fremantle line. In the case of the NW line, the metro does a tiny bit better than than the Armadale line. Once Sydney Metro gets its little operational issues sorted out (and perhaps tune up the acceleration a bit), it will be performing as well as the Perth legacy lines. This smashing of the tyranny of distance with a rapid transit system (that also does this while maintaining the convenience of stopping at all stops) is a great breakthrough for Sydney.I found today that, as others have noted, the aircon is too cold and fanned at too high a speed (for winter) and the announcments are too loud. They need to do a far bit of fine-tuning of their various systems. I was also surprised to find that the door threshold/platform gaps actually seemed a little larger than they are in Perth, in spite of Sydney Metro blowing its horn about being the first fully accessible line in Australia. When I was riding the Armadale line the other day, a bloke in a somewhat large mobility scooter (complete with overhead sun canopy!) roared aboard the train, motored down the carriage and roared out the next door at his stop which had a ramp to the street (Perth either has lifts or ramps system-wide). When you ride around Perth you realise that its not just the north-south line that's accessible, it's the whole system.The Sydney metro trains are basically the same as the Perth B series - the extra door would make them the same as the upcoming C series. The bum space is the same as in Perth. though the padding is not quite as wide with those plastic gaps in betwen seats. In Perth the upholstery is continuous and is also better moulded to body shape. The bottom line is that they're both rapid transit systems with the same type of train but the benefits of technology progress (more than a decade apart in design) give an obvious advantage to Sydney - the automation and the quietness. On the stations, the platform screens - and particularly those stations with sound-deadening full-height bulkheads, creating an airport-lounge feeling like Perth Busport) give Sydney something special that nobody else in Australia has.If I'd never been to Perth I'd be awestruck, but having been to Perth I'd rate it right up there alongside. With our distances, rapid transit (with the convenience of all stops) is definitely something that AUstralian cities need. My wife also gave it the tick which is really something. Tens of thousands of Sydney northwest residents are obviously over the moon about it, lucky bastards.Tony P