FW: Mon.28.5.18 daily digest
  Roderick Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: Roderick Smith [mailto:rodsmith@werple.net.au]
Sent: Monday, 4 June 2018 11:55 AM
To: 'transportdownunder@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Mon.28.5.18 daily digest



180528M Metro Twitter - Kororoit Creek Rd grade separation.

180528M Melbourne 'Age':
- 1985 streetscape, Holden taxis & trams.
- Flagstaff as at its 1985 opening. [Melbourne Express, not twitter].

180528M Melbourne 'Herald Sun':
- letters (road & rail).
- busy roads.


Mon.28.5.18 Metro Twitter.
5.54 Sandringham line: Minor delays South Yarra - Sandringham (vandalism).
7.36 Sunbury line: Minor Delays (a train fault at North Melbourne).
- 7.41 In which direction?
8.17 Belgrave/Lilydale lines: Major Delays (an equipment fault near
Ringwood). Services will terminate/originate at Ringwood.
- 8.21 To those passengers on the train in between Croydon and Ringwood
East, please remain on the train and listen to further announcements or
directions from staff.
- 8.22 I'm already on the train. If you knew about this 10 minutes ago I
could have driven to work. Why don't you tell people at the stations so that
they can seek an alternative?
- 8.22 We're working towards getting your train back to Croydon station.
- 8.23 At least my car is there.
- 8.23 Major equipment fault last Wednesday on Blackburn line and now this
today. Keep up the good work!
- 8.25 I'm between Ringwood East and Ringwood. I want to go back to Croydon,
or forward to the city. I don't want to be sitting here.
- 8.28 Are there trains running from Ringwood?
- 8.33 Major Delays.
- 8.37 Thanks for nothing
- 8.41 What announcements? Speakers at Ringwood East must be broken? Then
again that's pretty normal. 30 minutes, three trains not arrived, no
- 8.42 The metronotify app is handy to check when you leave in the morning
and when you get to the station. Don't turn on notifications though, you
would think nothing runs on time!
- 8.44 Standing at the wrong end of the platform, I couldn't hear muffled
- 8.46 Trains are moving again, with major delays.
- 9.20 Announcements at Ringwood East aren't very clear at the Ringwood end
of the platform. I could have walked to Ringwood if I'd heard.
11.20 Sunbury line: Buses to replace trains between Footscray and Sunshine
(urgent overhead works). Passengers travelling outbound please board a
Werribee/Williamstown train and change at Footscray for a bus replacement.
- 11.34 Four buses are in operation between Footscray and Sunshine, with a
further four enroute. Extended journey time of ~30 minutes.
- 11.47 Anticipate buses to replace trains between Footscray and Sunshine
until at least 1:30pm.
- 13.10 Eight buses are in operation.
- 13.19 Is this still expected only until 13.30?
- 13.32 & 14.16 still bustituted.
- 14.36 Train services now resume, with minor delays. [This isn't quite the
same as 'have resumed'].
- 17.57 I'm on a train home now (17.30); the clock at Ginifer said 16.08,
and that our train was the 16.04 Sydenham Watergardens (it was about 17.45
by then).
- 18.08 Werribee Line: Major Delays (a signal fault at Spotswood).
18.47 While the works on the Pakenham and Cranbourne lines take place. Will
there be only Comeng trains between Westall and Cranbourne and Pakenham, or
will there be Siemens too?
Altona loop & Williamstown North commuters, by the end of July Kororoit
Creek Rd level crossing will have gone following a 43-day construction
'blitz' from 16 June.
- Why can't you build the bridge and new track alongside the existing line
and then join it in over a few days? It's hardly space constrained along
there. 43 days seems excessive.
- We've done as much work as possible with the train line open. We're
building two bridges (for trains running in each direction). One is along
the existing line but the other will be constructed on the same alignment as
the existing tracks and can't be completed with trains running. [but could
have been built later, as at Canterbury].
- Your video shows only a single bridge, clear of the existing track. [He
was looking at stage 1; the other image shows two tracks. However, these
won't make services more reliable or more frequent. The choke is the single
line with Westona, and the constant unreliability of the 1990s signalling at

Melbourne Express, Monday, May 28, 2018
9.07 Delays of up to 30 minutes on the Belgrave and Lilydale lines after an
earlier equipment fault. Major delays also on the Sunbury lines.
8.25 Trouble on the Belgrave and Lilydale lines. Passengers appear to be
stuck on a train in between Croydon and Ringwood East after an equipment
There are also delays of up to 10 minutes on the Werribee and Williamstown
8.10 Minor delays on the Belgrave, Craigieburn, Frankston, Lilydale, South
Morang and Sunbury lines.
The Eastern Freeway will carry as many as 282,000 cars and trucks a day at
its busiest time once the North East Link opens, almost 100,000 more
vehicles than it currently carries, modelling commissioned by the state
government says.
Yesterday in 1985, Flagstaff Station was opened to the public. Here's a
video of the City Loop construction, when it was known by the much less sexy
acronym, MURL (or Melbourne Underground Rail Loop):
5.57 Minor delays already on the Glen Waverley line. On the roads, there's
an accident on Bridgewater Boulevard at Berwick.

Farewell myki cards? Trial for app to let you touch on with your phone.
Mon.28.5.18. 77 comments.
The trial in Melbourne follows Sydney's introduction - on its small light
rail network and on its ferries - of both smartphone and credit card tap on
and off facilities.
Other cities where a smartphone app allows travellers to board without a
ticket include Houston, London in some circumstances, some Chinese cities,
and Singapore.
The Melbourne mobile phone trial will see the technology used across
multiple transport modes on the entire Victorian network, without new
infrastructure or equipment being built.
"This is a very large and complex network that we have, the ticketing system
has to work across all those different aspects of it," said Ms Allan.
There is no sign of when iPhone users will be able to use their device to
It is the latest development in myki technology, which began in 2005 as a
replacement for the old paper ticketing system. By 2016, myki's rollout had
cost Victorians more than $1.5 billion.
The new seven-year myki contract, signed with NTT Data in 2016, will cost
Victorians $700 million more.
Part of that deal was for new technology like this to be trialled.
There are no moves to introduce a single-use ticket, the absence of which is
a regular source of complaint among public transport users. But a successful
smartphone app could negate the need for it.
If the trial is successful, it will allow passengers to top up on the go,
check the balance of their myki at any time, avoid ticketing machine queues
and reduce the chance of misplacing physical cards.
Ms Allan said the trial would start via a limited, industry-based test group
of users on Android devices. If it was a success, it would then be extended
to a wider test group later in 2018.
The trial period is expected to run until early 2019.
Existing physical myki cards will remain in use during and after the trial.
Passengers using mobile myki will be able to top up with myki money or a
myki pass as they do currently.
Launched in 2008 after 3 years of preparation, myki now has 12 million
active cards and 700 million transactions each year.
Public Transport Victoria chief executive Jeroen Weimar said the app being
trialled would allow people to have multiple account holders registered on
one device.
Public Transport Users Association spokesman Daniel Bowen welcomed the move,
saying it was essential a good ticketing system made it easy for passengers
to pay.
He said that, while the trial was a step forward, the technology used would
have limitations.
"A lot of mobile phones don't currently have the functionality required. And
while many public transport systems are implementing payments from
contactless credit cards, which are very common, it seems myki isn't capable
of this," Mr Bowen said.
* Brilliant thinking...
Everyone will need a smart phone, including children and the poor.
More iPay Irish tax for a phone, apps and connection already paid for at $2k
per plan.
Oops software glitch day.
Oops I'm 84 how does this work?
Oops international visitor.
Oops forgot my mobile today.
* This is already working in Japan. What's the big deal?
* For $3billion, the Americans landed a vehicle on Mars which sent images
and information back to Earth. For $1.5billion, we get a half-arsed ticket
* I am one of those people who runs a smartphone but I run it outside of
home with Mobile data off. I get phone calls and sms and turn it onto mobile
data wen I need to access the internet. I have not tried mobile payment as
a) I don't want everything on my phone. b) I carry cards anyway. C) I don't
want my phone hacked. Put all your stuff onto your phone and you are subject
to poor reception, flat battery, failed battery, dropped phone, loss and
unauthorised access. Why would you ever put your credit card details, bank
info, superannuation info, myki on your phone? You would have to be a
complete moron.
* It will use the NFC chip in your phone. You won't need mobile data
coverage. No one's making you use it. The article states Myki card will
continue in parallel if contactless is implemented. I pay for everything
with my phone now. It's super convenient and there are multiple layers of
security. More secure than a debit card or a Myki card anyway which, if
lost, anyone can use (Paywave/Paypass) without a passcode.
* They are not going to phase out the ticket. Using the phone will just be
another alternative as a ticket.
* Has there ever been an audit on just how many people have mobile phones? I
know half a dozen who refuse to have one and there are times when I think
seriously about ditching it. My friend who lives in the bush was fined the
other day for parking in a hospital park because he didn't have a mobile
phone to activate the parking payment process. Where are we going here?
* Stupid idea, too many issues - what happens when no phone coverage?
Why the Myki people didn't go for something like an 'etag' device puzzles
It would automatically 'touch on' when you pass by the Myki machines,
removing the need to actually touch on with a Myki card, which in it's self
is a very fragile card, or as some some computers do, just wave it near the
sensor, knowing full well that it hasn't registered. ( free travel). Or the
the need to flash your expensive smartphone in plain view of of other
computers, silly practise.
* Oops Telstra service. Hmmm etag maybe you should do the design.
* Well done. Another conplete waste of money. Guess the tax payer will foot
the bill.
* I cannot explain the unconsciousable decision by those in charge to
develop Myki ahead of already existing superior systems when it was first
introduced. The London system can use transport cards, credit cards,
smartphones (sans app), smart watches and was already existing and
functional pre Myki. And now Myki is unable to function or be upgraded to
more modern technology and this sad attempt has to be trialled. Shocking!
* The obvious solution is to enable credit and debit cards to tap directly.
But i guess we cant invest in something so sensible, since we have already
committed a ridiculous amount of funding to myki, and myki's demonstrably
poor business strategy meant that their machines have no capability to
enable the biggest payment tech change this decade. How we re-signed a
contractor with such a poor services and poor rate or return on the
investment just goes to show how poor the govt are at making business
decisions. Does anyone else think its majorly suspicious that a tender
process involving public transport is kept totally secret from the public?
People of Melbourne, understand this: public transport is not there to
provide you with a service. It is there so a bunch of corporate types can
enjoy their multi-million dollar lifestyle.
The govt should have kept the 700 million and just installed card readers.
If every shop in the country can manage to obtain pay pass tech, surely
installing all trams and train stations shouldn't be that hard.
* Have a look at Hong Kong which went in the other direction - the Octopus
card is a general debit card option that not only pays transport fares but
can be used in supermarkets, newsagents, Maccas and on and on. I don't know
but I suspect part of the cost of the system is recouped by tiny charges to
other vendors or users each time the card is used for some other
I'm not saying that it's a perfect option - just that there's lots of
* It won't be long before we'll be required to be micro-chipped.
* 12 Million active Myki cards! At $6 per adult card, $3 for a concession or
child card someone has made a lot of money out of Myki. Add to that the
inactive cards... wow.
* It would be so much easier if we had a chip with all our details and bank
accounts implanted in our hand. Just walk right past the detectors waving
your hand. No need for guards. If no credit left, the barrier alarms go off
and you run like hell.
* No good. You'll only end up with a bunch of fundamentalist Christians
howling about the Mark of the Beast.
* I understand that Perth will be rolling out a replacement for its Smart
Rider card mid-2019. The current system is extremely reliable. The new card
will be able to have money transferred from phones. The ability to use
direct debit is already working well.
The new reader devices at railway stations and on buses will be configured
to allow (at a later time) contactless card and mobile phone pay-as-you-go
functionality. It is predicted that the system would be similar to the
system that has been successfully implemented by Transport for London.
Why is it that Melbourne keeps spending huge amounts of money on developing
bespoke systems when someone else has field proven the technology elsewhere
* That's a total of 1.3 Billion on how to charge people, infrastructure
however, still remaining in the 60's. Looks like the main goal here is to
gain interest from people money (credit) - Since the app will know where we
are now, hopefully compensation on late trains can be refunded in real time
* Go back to paper tickets and employ people to check and sell them. It will
work out much more reliable and cheaper. Don't use technology for
technology's sake. It stresses everyone out!
* Could someone please update the Myki website. It looks like it was built
in 2000 and not updated since. The design is clunky and user unfriendly.
* The myki site does not exist anymore (old URL diverts to PTV). If you're
referring to PTV, then check out the new Beta site...
* It has moved. It's now at mymyki.com.au
* Jeez another app? another way to give away your data? How would this make
it accessible to more Victorians ?? Thank goodness they are still keeping
the cards . There are a lot of people who will never have a smartphone. I
regret that I have.
* Don't live with regret then, turf your smartphone.
* I trust those of us who don't have a computer in our pocket tracking our
every movement, wont be disadvantaged.
* no, you will obey our overlords
* This sounds like a good option for people who don't care about their
privacy (as is their right), but leave an unregistered myki option (with
cash recharging) for the rest of us.
(I'm not sure what I'd do if they removed the unregistered option. I much
prefer public transport over car on environmental grounds, but I'm
absolutely opposed to having to register the details of my every movement
around the city - guess I'd just have to use the bike for all of my trips
rather than just most of them?)
* About time. We saw this in Sweden probably 12 years ago.
* That's because it was created by seven large Swedish banks and supported
by the Central bank. I couldn't see that ever happening in Australia.
* Sweden is now approaching being a cash-less society - and that is causing
some angst amongst Swedes
* These ticketing systems cost so much money. And the revenue they return is
only about $400 million per year. So, we've spent $1 billion plus another
$700 million; for that price we could have had 4 years of completely free
public transport! Imagine what free public transport would do. It would take
so many cars off the road, and make the roads so much better of those who
really do have to drive.
Melbourne would function so much better if, instead of spending money on
complicated ticketing systems, just invest the money instead into providing
free public transport.
It would be a service to the entire city.
* Sadly, free PT is no longer a viable option, with paid peak hour services
operating well beyond capacity. Moonee Ponds was the last station allowing
passengers on for my Craigeburn line commute in this morning - we need the
money to go into service improvements and rejuvenated train design.
* I agree in principle, Tim, but how would the system cope with all that
extra patronage. If you've take a tram in the CBD free travel zone (a great
idea in itself), you see the effects - the trams are sardine cans!
* I'd be happier if they simply added a card type filter on their scanners
to exclude non-myki cards.
My single most annoying issue is, that I have 1 myki card and multiple bank
issued cards in my wallet, yet I always get "multiple cards detected".
* Keep your wallet or handbag away from the readers - just flick the Myki
card past the reader.
* To all those who are so in love with new technology, have you thought
about people who don't have mobile phones with the capacity for this, or
even just the somewhat absurd idea that you need to carry a phone in order
to use public transport?
* Good points, Cargi. The other problem is that this would make the loss or
theft of your phone even more catastrophic. You lose cash, PT cards, theatre
tickets and God knows what else. I am one of those people who like to
minimise damage - that's why I keep my car keys and house/office keys
* YEAH, LARGE numbers of "older" people don't have smartphones or even the
old call & text phones - and you are right - WHY should the have to BUY and
PAY for smartphone, just to use public transport ???
* Would be a good idea if the system scanned passenger's phones as they went
through the barriers then we could take another giant leap towards fare
* No mobile coverage - including congested network - no ride.
Think about it. Those attending big events would know all about this.
* OR a dead cellphone/ banking network - like NBA the other day- NO cash, no
buy anything - OH and NBA took down the total Bank of New Zealand system NZ
wide at the same time.
* According to the government, "Myki now has 12 million active cards"
That's a staggering number for the Melbourne population of 4.3M, of which
about 35% (~1.5M) use public transport, and at last census only ~1.1M
regular users in Melbourne. Perhaps they lost a decimal point ?
* That would be all the extra cards purchased by people who forgot their
myke card and had to buy another and all the tourists/overseas students. If
the card was fully refundable, i am sure we'd have more realistic figures
plus a single-use card and less plastic waste. But then imagine all that
income lost to the provider!
* It wouldn't surprise me if the number was 12mill. I know I have at least 4
mykis as I've forgotten mine on a few occasions and been forced to buy
another one or risk being late for work. Not to mention the fact that for
some reason you can't change it from a concession card to a full fare, you
again have to purchase a whole new card and I'm betting I'm not the only one
with multiple cards.
* Yes, but how many of those 12 million are really "active", and how is
"active" defined? Remember:
- It's not only regular users who have active mykis - it's anyone who has
bought a myki in the last however-many-years-it-takes-a-myki-to-expire.
- Who bothers to cancel a lost/damaged myki (even assuming it was registered
so that's an option)? I'm guessing there are a lot of those in the count.
- Some people have more than one myki (ever accidentally left your myki at
home? Yeah, me too).
- Then factor in the number of tourists who need to buy mykis every year,
then take it with them when they leave.
~10 cards per regular user might seem high, but it doesn't seem particularly
* MOST tourists to Melbourne buy a MYKI card if they want to travel outside
the city centre - like my wife and I, our cards are registered with "myki"
are we keep them active - we visit Melbourne on a regular basis - every two
three months and we have a reasonable CREDIT on both our cards. I would
suggest that the so called problem with the 12 million cards is both the
tourists (my wife and I) and also the visitors from outside Victoria (Aussie
Tourists) that buy a card and don't use all of the value on it before
leaving. Remember that a Myki card is active for FOUR years after purchase -
even if you don't use it. !!!
* About time. All cards should go digital.
* So a phone app for Myki that accesses the NFC chip to talk to the reader
huh? No wonder the trial is with Android. Users of iPhones have a dedicated
wallet app where all cards are stored (like a real world wallet) and that
app accesses the NFC chip to talk to whatever device is involved. Individual
iPhone apps cannot do that of their own accord. Either the reporter hasn't
quite grasped what the technology actually is, or the people working on it
haven't realised that things don't work the same way on Android and iPhone.
Anyhow its a great idea if it can be made to work. It could hardly be
simpler or easier than using a smart device like an Apple Watch to touch on.
As has been possible in, amongst other places, London, Singapore, cities in
Japan, and latterly Sydney (oh no, if Sydney does that we can't possibly, so
* Farewell Myki cards. Really? Along with credit cards and ATM cards I
presume......in the next 50 years when "Clay" turns 70. Many people still
don't have smart phones and won't pay for one as clowns do for $90 a month
just so that they can touch on. Let's just move on a little from the
smugness of smart phones. Yes I use a smart phone but my parents don't. But
older than me are the people who invented smart phones and the technology
behind them. These people are now in their 70s 80s and 90s. It was only
Windows 98 where you had to put in a string of DOS code to reset your
computer. Now you hit system restore and it does it for you. Someone made it
easy so that you just swipe. A moron could do it. A smart phone is for dumb
people. Think about that. People are not smart because they can tap it. They
are smart if they invented it.
* Why are cars/trucks able to have a single card for the whole country
(etag/etoll etc) yet for public transport we need 7 systems for 7 states? It
wouldn't be because the roads & transport lobby are large donors for the
political parties?
* All well and good, how will my 82 yo mother cope?
* YEAH - have the same problem with my mother in law 89. Just wants to go
ONE tram stop twice a week (and return). What's a smartphone - one that
allows you to walk around you apartment with it and allows you to talk to
poeple and has a gadget that people can leave messages on "something" when I
am out at the shops !!!!!
* Simple. she can continue to use the myki card she has now.
* That's all we needed more rubbish technology....SIGH
* The next trial should be showing ALL the PT BUS Stops on an app and on
your computer!
* Is it April Fools Day? This is an absolute no brainer: the technology is
already native to Android (and I guess iOS) through the use of NFC. All they
have to do is link the card ID to an app and off you go. Some consultancy is
going to make a killing out of doing nothing.
* You haven't heard of the MyPal app (android)? Pretty much does all this
already. What a complete joke.
* The critical aspect the MyPal app lacks is touch ON/OFF, so you still need
to remember to have a card with you, and there is still a wait between topup
and account balance being updated. This new Myki app should hopefully solve
those issues once and for all.
* 392 downloads from the Play store. I'd say a lot of people haven't heard
of it.
* An app for public transport! Who would have thought? This 'no-brainer'
should be in every city around the world instead of these different cards
they all require..
* Yep as does Google, Apple and Samsung Pay, tap and go in just about every
store to buy things with a virtual card number linked to your own card but
not public transport. That's where they should be looking for a tap and go
Myki, being able to link your Myki Card Number to one of those tap and go
providers instead of yet another app separate to your chosen one.
* This is really exciting technology, it is 2012 and it is about time we got
up to speed with these enhancements?
Oh? What's that? It is 2018 and this is a limited trial that will run 12
months until it can be deemed appropriate to let everyone use?
Glad I walk to work - my shoes are far more technologically advanced than
bloody Myki is.
* Except Myki is particularly convenient and works well. Nothing easier than
taking out your Myki card and swiping it.
* Only on the new readers. The original readers are glacially slow. And
Metro hasn't bothered updating the readers to the new ones for any but a
handful of stations. Leading to unecessary queues at most suburban railway
stations in peak hour. We moved people more easily in and out of our
stations decades ago!! If they updated the readers, maybe we might return to
similar ease and convenience.
* What about when myki people make you replace for no good reason?
* In 2012 Google wallet was released to the public. It was accessible on a
handful of devices and was unavailable to Australian customers. Android Pay
(formally Google Pay) was supported by Australian banks in 2016. Businesses
primarily began supporting payments by phone in 2017.
There are currently three main ways to pay with your phone. Android Pay,
Apple Pay, and Samsung Pay.
Samsung Pay obviously is found on Samsung handsets. It is only compatible
with the 'big four' banks.
Apple Pay is only available on the iPhone 6 and up. It is compatible with 37
banks and credit unions in Australia. Of the 'big four' it is only fully
supported by one bank.
Android Pay is supported by all android phones. It is compatible with 30
banks and credit unions. It is supported by two of the 'big four'.
It is 2018 and there are still a lot of limitations to paying by your phone
in Australia.
A limited trial is standard practice for all technology advancements.

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