Hi Andrew & All.

Thanks for the maps re cool stores and FS – SS tramway.

Must agree with you on the location w.r.t King St loop.
The tramway was a freight line from the approx. centre of the Spencer St goods yard and ran on the centre of Flinders St ext. then diverted to the south side of Flinders St
and Flinders St Yard on the north side not too far away from a Flinders St boundary, probably somewhere on an alignment with the front of the Banana Alley Vaults.

On the other hand the Viaduct had to do have an alignment to do 2 , not too sharp, reverse curves to reach from Spencer St pass to Flinders St.
The photos and drawings I have seen show the cool store tracks adjacent to the viaduct alignment.
So the land for the King St loop would be under the buildings.

Of interest is your drawing of the viaduct showing the piling depths.

In conclusion I have attached, courtesy SLV, Charles Rudd’s photo of Flinders St from Spencer St in 1895 (H 39357/1) where at this stage you can still see both sidings.
The is a jpg version, a TIFF version is available at 50+ megs if you want to count bricks.
What and who did it serve and when – more questions!

Kind Regards
Kevin

From: mailto:TramsDownUnder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 12:38 PM
To:TramsDownUnder@...
Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Running times [was Re: Re: FW: daily digest, Sat.13.1.18]

Hi Kevin,

Per my earlier mail the Cool Stores sidings weren't on the same alignment as the ground level line.

I initiated the discussion in Mark Bau's (sadly lost) forum as it's a topic I have been interested in for some years, and contributed quite a bit to it.

My recollection differs from yours, I don't recall the group coming to a preferred conclusion that the sidings were laid on the old loop.

As I also mentioned in my previous mail, I was kindly sent a copy of VR's own file on the branch. This contains 80+ plans and documents regarding the building and operation of the branch. I received the file after the forum had been ceased so never had the chance to add this in. There's far too much detail to include here, it needs its own study, and is OT for this forum.

In brief, as far as I can ascertain:

* The VR tried to get the market to use the old ground-level loop when the building was proposed

* The Council (owners) requested a change in the alignment to suit their building

* The VR agreed

* The sidings were owned from inception by the Council from a point about mid-way across Spencer St crossing, but operated and maintained by the VR

* They were taken up around 1929

Here's a few of the diagrams that may help:

1. The alignment of the original ground-level crossing loop in regard to where the viaduct was built - note it is near straight and at a tangent to the viaduct:

https://flic.kr/p/DWggCv

2. One of the plans showing the councils requested alignment in relation to the viaduct, this was the alignment that was built - note the position and now curvature, matching the viaduct and the shape of the Cool Stores which were presumably designed by Council to best fit the space

https://flic.kr/p/JDqcCc

Also may interest :

3. Another document from the file showing the alignment of the ground-level line out of Spencer St yard to the point where the Cold Stores started, and also the later line along Flinders St - it seems the only part of the ground-level line possibly used was a small section across the crossing, if that:

https://flic.kr/p/22vwEX7

4. A further map showing where the ground level line entered Flinders Street station which solves that query:

https://flic.kr/p/23xrSPS

Cheers, Andrew - who rarely contributes to online forums as it's a bit of a hassle