It is still available from the Sydney Tramway Museum...

Bob M

----- Original Message -----
From: Dudley Horscroft
To:TramsDownUnder@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Newcastle Trams

Thanks, but it is no longer listed on the ARHS catalogue. I have tried some tramway museums, but apparently no copies. The City of
Sydney Library has a copy so I have put in an interlibrary loan request.

Regards

Dudley Horscroft

----- Original Message -----
From: bblunt@...>
To: TramsDownUnder@...>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Newcastle Trams

> It was listed as available from the ARHS Sydney bookshop a couple of

> months back, and can probably also be obtained from Tram Museums.

>

> Many of Keenan's early books have been reprinted in recent times and are

> also available.

>

>> It should be available at the nsw rail transport bookshop amongst others..I

>> got mine from David direct it came out in hard cover and soft cover

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ________________________________

>> From: Dudley Horscroft transitconsult@...>

>> To:TramsDownUnder@...

>> Sent: Mon, 9 November, 2009 2:02:22 PM

>> Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Newcastle Trams

>>

>> Â

>> Thanks, Peter.

>>

>> I had never heard of the book, suppose it may be out of print, but will

>> try from our local library. It would be good to get my

>> suppositions confirmed!

>>

>> Better still, I have checked with the National Library catalogue and find

>> it was written 1999. Should be still available then, and

>> probably from a cheaper library than the National Library.

>>

>> Thanks again

>>

>> Dudley Horscroft

>>

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: "Peter Brewer" <prbrewer2003@ yahoo.com. au>

>> To: <TramsDownUnder@ yahoogroups. com>

>> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:19 AM

>> Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Newcastle Trams

>>

>> Try the Tramways of Newcastle book By David Keenan

>>

>> ____________ _________ _________ __

>> From: Dudley Horscroft <transitconsult@ ozemail.com. au>

>> To: TramsDownUnder@ yahoogroups. com

>> Sent: Sun, 8 November, 2009 11:13:09 PM

>> Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Newcastle Trams

>>

>> I've gone back to the Curve and Gradient Book, and checked on the Speers

>> Point Line. For about half the length of the line, it is

>> in fact on a road. However, "Speers Point Road" does not exist according

>> to Google!

>>

>> There are oddities regarding the distances on these lines (the disused

>> steam lines).

>>

>> The main Wallsend line shows its junction with the steam line to West

>> Wallsend just past Wallsend Depot at 8m 37c, on a gradient on

>> 1:42. Fair enough. The West Wallsend steam line has its mileage starting

>> back at John St, and at the corresponding point, at

>> Wallsend Depot, the mileage is given as 0m 27c, as near as I can make out.

>> There is no indication where the junction for the Speers

>> Point line is (was). On the main line, from the same point on the John St

>> section as the West Wallsend line starts, at about 8m

>> 10c, the curves shown are 175'A, 90B, 550A, 90A, 90A. Here 'A' and 'B'

>> refer to the direction of the curve - not certain which is

>> left or right heading away from N'cle. On the West Wallsend diagram, the

>> same series are shown as: 550'A, 90'B, 550'A, 90'A. A

>> long loop - about 8 chains, is shown at the Depot - not shown on the main

>> line diagram.

>>

>> Loops are shown at 0m 45c, 2m 3c, 3m 35c, and close to the end at 7m 38c..

>> This argues for a lot of short workings, or a very odd

>> service!

>>

>> The Speers Point Line branches off the West Wallsend line at 2m 65c

>> approx. from where not stated. However, there is a stop -

>> Cockle Creek, perhaps, where two distances are shown. These are 12m 33c

>> 39.80 links from N'cle, and 4m 36c 60.59 links. By

>> subtraction, this gives the zero point for mileage on the Speers Point

>> line at 7m 76c 79.21 links from N'cle. Looking back at the

>> Wallsend Line, this is a nearly totally undistinguished spot on Robert

>> Street in Wallsend - perhaps where the gradient changes from

>> level to down at 1:30.

>>

>> While there is no indication of the location of Speers Point Road, perhaps

>> a good estimate may be made. Near the end there is a

>> series of cross roads - First, etc to Seventh. Between 3rd and 4th Sts

>> there is a curve left, heading towards N'cle, and some way

>> after 7th Street there is a curve right. This is consistent with the

>> curves and roads on "Main Road" in "Boolaroo" a suburb just

>> north of Speers Point. No other road fits this pattern. Further south, on

>> Main Road there is a left bend at "Lakemac Print" - to

>> the east of which is Council Street. I would envisage that at one time

>> Council Street was intended to run through to Main Road,

>> where the intersection is identified as First St. Again further south,

>> Google shows Nord St and Speers St at approximately the

>> correct locations for 2nd and 3rd Sts. After 3rd St, about 4 chains south,

>> there is a long 2 chain curve to the left, looking

>> towards N'cle. The length of the curve is about 5 chains, which means that

>> the track has curved through around 140 degrees. This

>> is consistent with a turn through the site of " Pippi's at the Point" and

>> leads into Mary St heading NW. After one chain on this

>> alignment, there is another bend to the right, to roughly west, and to the

>> south of the western leg of Mary St. Then another

>> curve, to the left facing N'cle, and the start of the terminal loop. I

>> would imagine that the terminus was on the Esplanade,

>> approximately at the "non"-junction with Mary Street - the latter does not

>> actually join the Esplanade.

>>

>> Working in the other direction, the route follows Main Road, and then Lake

>> Road, pretty well, including showing the S bend at the

>> overbridge at Cockle Creek Station. By the Argenton Hotel - a landmark

>> still standing after 80 or more years - there is another S

>> bend, and then a short distance later the line turns on to "Private

>> Property" . I think that this is immediately to the east of

>> Elizabeth Street, and the 7 chain curve to the left is suitable to place

>> the line on a track curving away to the north of Lake Road.

>> This is consistent with the lane way behind the houses on Park Street,

>> between them and the golf course. The line crosses the route

>> of the "Young Wallsend Railway" with a "Passenger Landing", and crosses

>> Brush Creek. The line continues dead straight, and on

>> Google it merges with Frederick Street as far as Clare St. In the vicinity

>> of Clare Street, the road bends - but this is not shown

>> on the diagram, and I suspect that there is a page missing from the

>> Diagram - which would be consistent with the mileage apparently

>> starting at about 2m 65c. The label here - "Junction with West Wallsend

>> Line" would appear to be completely erroneous. Frederick

>> Street eventually peters out, and a track continues, which with several

>> bends, appears to continue round the site of Elermore Glen

>> retirement village, and then to the west of the Seventh Day Adventist

>> Church. Then a housing estate - with unnamed roads - appears

>> to have been built on the line, which then, perhaps, continues N of

>> Dorrigo Road, heading 040, passing the end of Turrama St, and

>> parallel to Namer, or Narner St, then crossing the Newcastle Link Road,

>> and then becoming Cowper St, leading into the centre of

>> Wallsend.

>>

>> Most of this previous paragraph is extremely speculative, but I think a

>> fair guess. Without a good 1930's map, or the missing part

>> of the Diagram,. I suspect it is the best that can be done. Of course, i

>> is always possible that the missing section is in fact the

>> West Wallsend Line for the first 2m 65c. A possibility to be investigated

>> if I ever get the time. Trouble is I don't know the

>> starting or finishing points, and there are even fewer clues to work from!

>>

>> Regards

>>

>> Dudley Horscroft

>>

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