Even if Sydney Trains can sustain 25 trains per hour, that only raises the capacity to about 30,000 pphpd, still well short of a metro's capacity.

The assumption that Sydney's double deckers provide a comfortable ride that attracts people out of cars is somewhat contradicted by the Perth experience where the trains are almost identical to the metro trains that Sydney will have. Perth has been more successful, not only at attracting people from cars but in rating more highly than Sydney for comfort in passenger surveys.

Speed of journey plays a significant role in those results. As the earlier figures showed, Transperth (and Sydney Metro) could get you from Cronulla to Redfern 10 minutes faster than Sydney Trains, even though the Perth example had one more stop to make. That means less time spent on the train, which contributes to a more comfortable journey and reduces the impact of standing if you have to stand.

The NSW south coast line is a big example of the failure of the comfort of having extra seating to attract people out of cars. People have been abandoning the train for their cars in droves. Speed of journey is a far more significant influence.

I'll give a final example. I've done the 33 km segments, here's the 70 km example. 70 km is the Mandurah line end to end in Perth. 70 km from Central in Sydney is Woy Woy, Blaxland, Thirroul and Douglas Park. I won't do the first three because their alignments are adversely curved and graded at the outer ends, but Douglas Park is on a great alignment from Sydney, the fastest of all the lines. The quickest services for Douglas Park with trains capable of 145 km/h take 61 minutes with 6 intermediate stops. Perth-Mandurah, with trains capable of 130 km/h only takes 51 mins with 10 stops. In Victoria for comparison, trains capable of 160 km/h appear to take around an hour outside peaks for the pretty straight-lined 70 km from Southern Cross to Geelong with about 7 to 9 stops. Average speed is more significant than maximum speed.

Sydney/NSW Trains is broken. Taking away a couple of their lines for metro might lighten the load enough to give them a chance to fix themselves. Riding a V set in the 1980s was the last great commuter experience on NSW railways.

Tony P
---InTramsDownUnder@..., <matthew@...> wrote :

Sydney Trains CAN operate DD's at 25 trains per hour - I regularly seem
them do it.

If people don't have a comfortable ride, they will drive.